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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1230 on: November 13, 2021, 09:13:52 pm »
In many ways this is a stealth tax increase of over 6% on every American this last 12 months. Stocks and home values are currently rising just fine to keep up with inflation. The poorer people are hit much harder.
Let's not forget our seniors on fixed incomes.   Looks like 2022 SSA COLA will be 5.9%, but annuities and pension plans don't care about the rate of inflation.

I dug out my old meme after the first month of >5% inflation.  I've been watching the claims move from pane to pane.  Just waiting to hear that we've finally moved to the last pane.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Jason

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1231 on: November 14, 2021, 10:02:40 am »
The New York Times already wrote an article in September that claimed inflation was a good thing. I am just waiting for claims that those who complain about inflation are racists, white supremacists, or white adjacent.
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1232 on: November 14, 2021, 02:07:27 pm »
I think the narrative will include, "Inflation means that wages are finally going up!" Along with the prices of everything else, which means that real buying power is the same. Or lower.
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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Jason

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1233 on: November 14, 2021, 03:52:49 pm »
True.

Which narratives are chosen will largely depend on who is in power at the time. Currently, Republicans will focus on the negative aspects of inflation such as wages falling behind inflation, loss of buying power, loss of value of savings, increased costs of home buying, etc. Democrats will attempt to talk about increasing demand and future healthy economies. I think the Republican narrative is more pertinent to the average citizen, especially with their recent turn toward populism. The Republicans also have the advantage that they are the out of power party, which is far easier to campaign on, as they can complain and not worry about actually getting results. But the Democrats have their own advantages, like a more willing media and the power of government departments. Mostly I think the Democrats have a harder position to defend and will try and change the topic.

If opposite parties were in power they would be trading narratives.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 03:54:20 pm by Jason »
 
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Sweet William

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1234 on: November 14, 2021, 06:22:50 pm »
Probably the largest component of inflation is the increase in fuel prices.  Poor people will suffer this winter because of the huge increases in the cost of heating sources. 
 
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Jason

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1235 on: November 22, 2021, 12:51:35 am »
I often come back to the narrative angle of why a news story is reported and commentated on in a certain way. A jury decided Kyle Rittenhouse was not guilty of the crimes he was charged with. I think the jury made the correct decision based on the facts of the case and the laws they had to work with. A reasonable person could call the shootings self-defense, so he was unanimously found not guilty.

But the narrative is different. The most egregious is from the left. They really, really wanted this to be a white supremacist who crossed state lines with an illegal gun to start a mass shooting of racial justice protesters, and was found not guilty only because of systemic racism. That narrative does not fit the actual facts, so they keep creating false facts to support their narrative, such as he illegally crossed state lines with a weapon, he lived far away from Kenosha and had no connection there at all, he was a white supremacist, and he randomly started shooting peaceful protesters who were minding their own business, and that those he shot were actually heroes, not violent felons trying to kill someone. This is why the left has propped up this case so highly. It is not a matter of facts, but of faith. Ignoring the facts and professing the preferred narrative proves their faith in their cause/religion. If one instead lets the actual facts lead one to the obvious conclusion of self-defense, then one is not devoted to the cause/religion.

But the people on the right should not be propping him up as a hero, either. He was stupid to take a rifle to a volatile situation. He did not know the people he shot and/or killed were pedophiles and violent felons.

The trial that is not getting attention is the murder of Ahmaud Arbery. Why? The defense team is also claiming self-defense. Their premise is that the defendants were performing a legal citizen's arrest when they chased Arbery down and stopped him, thus when Arbery went for their gun, it was self-defense to shoot him. I don't think the facts in this case can lead to a self-defense claim. The defendants never claimed they were performing a citizen's arrest to the police, they had not witnessed him commit a crime, and any crimes they thought he had committed had occurred days prior, so they couldn't stop him now. They provoked the conflict, so there was no right to self-defense. The judge agrees and has just thrown out their premise of a legal citizen's arrest, which means they have no defense, and this is pretty much a directed verdict of guilty from the judge.

This trial is not getting as much attention because those on both the left and right believe these men are guilty of murder. There is even near unanimity from the left and right condemning the delayed arrests of those that killed Arbery, and an investigation into why that occurred would be worthwhile. There is no profession of faith here to prove one's loyalty to a cause, so it is not getting as much attention.

Social media is also not stoking the trial because contention brings clicks, which brings revenue. The trial is not nearly contentious enough.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 12:59:28 am by Jason »
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1236 on: November 22, 2021, 08:39:03 am »
This is why 'unbiased news' will never get mainstream popularity, because, frankly, people don't want it. The public constantly is letting us be very well aware that they don't want news, they want someone they knew they will always agree with telling them they are always right. They want propaganda, not information to allow them to change their minds and make decisions on their own. The more to the center a news source tries to go, a more extreme polemical one will rise up and take their audience away.

It's depressing, and I don't know what can be done about it.
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1237 on: November 22, 2021, 11:20:05 am »
Many people ignore a founding principle of our constitutional government: Presumed innocent until proven guilty. Social media has taken the place of evidence and reasoning for most people.
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1238 on: November 22, 2021, 12:07:57 pm »
But the people on the right should not be propping him up as a hero, either. He was stupid to take a rifle to a volatile situation.

Kyle's mother told FOX news basically the same thing today.  She says in talking with Kyle, if he had to do it over again, he wouldn't.  I've made something of a study of the personal impacts made when someone uses a firearm defensively.  I hear similar statements occasionally, but most of them are along the lines of "I get to stay breathing and with my family because of what I did - I wish the dead guy had made other choices."   But then, hardly anyone forced to defend themselves (outside of law enforcement), walked towards known danger.

Quote
He did not know the people he shot and/or killed were pedophiles and violent felons.
Someone brought up a take on things that I hadn't considered.  Folks who bear the burden of having been sexually assaulted, or know someone who has, know of the lifelong struggle to just live on the same planet as their rapist.  There are three men out there, in their late '20's or early '30's, who heard the news that their rapist got himself shot to death while rioting in Kenosha.   While one can hope they don't take savage glee in the fact, I absolutely hope they are able to use the news to heal a bit more.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Sweet William

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1239 on: November 22, 2021, 02:54:02 pm »
This is why 'unbiased news' will never get mainstream popularity, because, frankly, people don't want it. The public constantly is letting us be very well aware that they don't want news, they want someone they knew they will always agree with telling them they are always right. They want propaganda, not information to allow them to change their minds and make decisions on their own. The more to the center a news source tries to go, a more extreme polemical one will rise up and take their audience away.

It's depressing, and I don't know what can be done about it.

A few of us want unbiased news.  I always appreciate the Bad News Network on Youtube for that very reason.  But mainstream sites have undoubtedly been segmented by the marketing department.  It's a tragedy, really.
 
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dyany

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1240 on: November 22, 2021, 03:15:30 pm »
Many people ignore a founding principle of our constitutional government: Presumed innocent until proven guilty. Social media has taken the place of evidence and reasoning for most people.

Not just the proof, but proven guilty OF AN EXISTING LAW, not my interpretation of a law, or Stuff I Think is Super Wrong.
And no, you can't change the law and then try someone on actions made before the law, either.
When day comes we step out of the shade,
aflame and unafraid
The new dawn blooms as we free it
For there is always light,
if only we're brave enough to see it
If only we're brave enough to be it
 
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Curelom

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1241 on: November 24, 2021, 10:35:54 pm »
Many people ignore a founding principle of our constitutional government: Presumed innocent until proven guilty. Social media has taken the place of evidence and reasoning for most people.

This is a basic legal principle that puts the burden of proof on the prosecution in a criminal trial to show the accused person’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to a moral certainty. Not “beyond a shadow of a doubt,” because that is never possible. “Beyond a reasonable doubt to a moral certainty” means there is enough evidence for the jury to feel morally justified in sending a person to prison or, if the law requires it, to have them receive capital punishment. Until & unless capital punishment laws are changed, a juror would have to be able to live with that.

The operative phrase is “presumed innocent.” They may be as guilty as Satan, but they are presumed innocent until the prosecution satisfies the jury otherwise. Being acquitted does not mean someone is innocent, & they could still be as guilty as Satan. It means the prosecution did not meet its burden of proof in the eyes of the jury. Since I didn’t hear every bit of evidence in the Rittenhouse trial, I don’t know if I would have voted to convict, but he was certainly guilty of stupidity beyond a reasonable doubt to deliberately attend a protest rally with a military assault-type weapon, claiming to be protecting property, without some inkling that it would be provocative & might result in trouble. If he wasn’t either a LEO or a hired security guard, he was the next thing to a vigilante.

We know that many people who were guilty have been acquitted because of lousy prosecution.

Even worse, we also know that innocent people are unjustly convicted & sentenced, even to death. One case is in the news now, a murder conviction just reversed after a judge ruled he was wrongfully convicted. This man lost the equivalent of an entire lifetime, over 40 years. At least he has his name & reputation restored, but no judge, no court decision, & no amount of monetary compensation can ever give him back his life.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Judge-exonerates-Missouri-man-convicted-in-3-16646104.php
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 10:41:24 pm by Curelom »
 
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Curelom

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1242 on: November 24, 2021, 10:39:31 pm »
Marjorie Taylor Greene, the extremist QAnon nutcase who represents Georgia in the U.S. House, has proposed awarding the Congressional Gold Medal to Kyle Rittenhouse.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-introduces-bill-to-award-congress-highest-honor-to-kyle-rittenhouse/

I didn’t see her proposing an honor for the Capitol police who risked their lives to protect Congress, the Vice President of the United States, & other public officials & the Capitol itself during the unlawful, violent, treasonous attempted coup de’etat of January 6.

The Congressional Gold Medal is an award for distinction that has been bestowed on Winston Churchill, Bob Hope, George Washington, Robert Frost, Joe Louis, the Dalai Lama, Martin Luther King Jr., & Mother Teresa. Whatever one’s opinion of Rittenhouse & the verdict, awarding this to him would be the equivalent of donald trump throwing away the Presidential Medal of Freedom on Rush Limbaugh & Devin Nunes. There isn’t much chance of Congress approving this, although other loons like Matt Gaetz, Madison Cawthorn, Lauren Boebert, & Paul Gosar will probably support it.
 
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Jen

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1243 on: November 25, 2021, 12:58:23 am »
Everything that nutjob does is for attention. She wants to stay in the headlines, and we give her exactly what she wants.

Extremism wins on the right. When did that happen?
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #1244 on: November 25, 2021, 08:42:50 am »
I don’t know if I would have voted to convict, but he was certainly guilty of stupidity beyond a reasonable doubt to deliberately attend a protest rally with a military assault-type weapon, claiming to be protecting property, without some inkling that it would be provocative & might result in trouble. If he wasn’t either a LEO or a hired security guard, he was the next thing to a vigilante.

I keep hearing this problematic line of reasoning.  Apply it to a woman walking down an alleyway wearing a revealing outfit, who ends up raped.  They catch and put the rapist on trial. Afterwords, the armchair quarterback opines:

“I don’t know if I would have voted to convict, but she was certainly guilty of stupidity beyond a reasonable doubt to deliberately walk down that alley next to that bar, dressed as she was, wanting to be left alone, without some inkling that it would be provocative & might result in trouble. If she wasn’t either a loose woman or looking to party, she was the next thing to a prostitute.”

When it comes to the rule of law, foreseeable consequences, and how much blame the various parties own, what applies to the first statement, applies to the second.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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