Welcome to New Nauvoo


Author Topic: Church Language Adjustments  (Read 275 times)

Taalcon

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Thanked: 1594 times
    • View Profile
Church Language Adjustments
« on: September 29, 2021, 12:06:22 pm »
I find this sort of stuff fascinating, and always take note of it when it starts getting used. I love this article that places a large amount of them in one place. Language absolutely affects the culture, and I love that this is understood and taken seriously.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/members/2021-09-29/general-handbook-terms-no-longer-used-226551
 
The following users thanked this post: Jen, Roper, Hobbes, nitasmile

Hobbes

  • MembersOnly
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Thanked: 230 times
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2021, 12:15:56 pm »
Quote
The term “caring for those in need,” for example, is more ministerial and less categorical than “caring for the poor and needy,” he said. “We’re not labeling them as poor; we’re not labeling them as needy. We’re calling them ‘a person in need,’ and that need can be anything.”

This seems right and important.
 
The following users thanked this post: LMAshton, dyany, Roper, Sparky, nitasmile, Taalcon

cook

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 689
  • Thanked: 768 times
  • Country: fi
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2021, 01:54:46 pm »
Great news! In some instances this means the English language comes closer to the terms used in other languages at church.  ;D

But I didn't see getting rid of the president yet. I so hope they'd get rid of that.
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Sparky, Taalcon

Taalcon

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Thanked: 1594 times
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2021, 03:23:45 pm »
'President' is engrained in the Doctrine and Covenants ( I mean, the official scriptural title for the designated leader of the Church is 'President of the High Priesthood of the Church'.), so I think it would be very difficult to find what would be considered a comparable term. 'Overseer' is a close thing, but that's technically the meaning of Bishop/Shepherd.

'Presiding' is at a really weird place in our cultural concepts, and is definitely worth revisiting/revising, but hard to do that without also removing 'Presidents'.Which I think is the challenge.
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Sparky

cook

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 689
  • Thanked: 768 times
  • Country: fi
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2021, 11:25:05 pm »
I think we do pretty well in our language without the president  ;D. The word exist, but we use it only about the prophet.

It is very possible to work with the word leader. I think it lessens bigotry, pride and wrong kind of aspiration for status.

I'm not so sure the use of it is doctrinal or even 'churchy' but just American.

 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

Taalcon

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Thanked: 1594 times
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2021, 11:46:55 pm »
I wouldn't say it's doctrinal, but it is scriptural (at least in modern scripture) and the current drive seems to make sure there's a scriptural precedent for the language for an idea and revert to that, and if not, find something better tonally.

I agree that President seems off, but I don't see it easily going away any time soon. (Leader Nelson in English actually sounds more, umm, culty or North Korea-y than President. I think when the choice is between overly corporate and overly culty, when making adjustments, they'll stick with the corporate).
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Sparky

Roper

  • Administrator
  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
  • Thanked: 3099 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2021, 12:28:22 am »
Several years ago, there was an initiative in my stake to refer to everyone by their church calling + last name. For example, the Sunday School president in the ward was called "President Baker." The YW president was "President Taylor." I thought it was stupid and refused to participate. So did a lot of people. It went away after a few months, and we resumed calling each other by our names. Even "sister" and "brother" seem contrived most of the time. As does including the middle initial in General Authorities' names.  I suppose it's better than just calling everyone "dude."
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
The following users thanked this post: Sweet William

Enochscion

  • MembersOnly
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 107
  • Thanked: 144 times
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2021, 10:30:59 am »
"Relief Society" is one that has always sounded weird to me. It's like calling the Elder's Quorum the "Roofing Committee". While providing relief is good, it is insufficient to describe the women of the Church.
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Sparky

dyany

  • Administrator
  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1358
  • Thanked: 1728 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
    • My blog
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2021, 01:44:37 pm »
I love the shifts. It's far more person-centric, which is much more respectful and psychology has been moving towards this trend for a few years now. I.e., not a schizophrenic, but a person with symptoms of schizophrenia. Much less defining and limiting.
When day comes we step out of the shade,
aflame and unafraid
The new dawn blooms as we free it
For there is always light,
if only we're brave enough to see it
If only we're brave enough to be it
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Sparky, Hobbes

cook

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 689
  • Thanked: 768 times
  • Country: fi
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2021, 02:27:31 pm »
I thought this was interesting: https://www.npr.org/2016/02/15/466848438/why-president-how-the-u-s-named-its-leader?t=1633026248941

I feel at least in the church the idea of the term of a president being more humble than others has turned upside down.

And like said, I'm fine with the president of the church. That could stay. But other presidents - I'd like to see us get rid of them (though not so much my problem since we don't use it in my language anyway.)
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

Taalcon

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Thanked: 1594 times
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2021, 03:08:24 pm »
If you keep President of the Church, what goes with it is president of the other Priesthood Quorums, as the Church president title is scripturally (D&C) "President of the High Priesthood of the Church" (Hence, Elder's Quorum Presidents, Teacher's Quorum Presidents, Deacon's Quorum Presidents, Presidents of the Seventy, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and then Bishops - still separately set apart as President of the Aaronic Priesthood and Presiding High Priest of the Ward - , Stake Presidents being the President of the High Priesthood in the Stake of _____).

Mission and Temple Presidents are somewhat similar.

Now, for designated leaders of Organizations (previously 'Auxilliaries'), the term 'President' is FAR more flexible, and has far less of a scriptural prescedent or mandate. But I'd have a hard time seeing them remove the title 'President' for the leader of the Relief Society while keeping President for the Elder's Quorum President, because optics. Unless the Relief Society becomes a Priesthood quorum of its own ;)

Again, I'm all for a different word in all regards! But it's a lot more engrained in the structure and complicated than I think we often think about.
 

cook

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 689
  • Thanked: 768 times
  • Country: fi
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2021, 03:32:21 pm »
Could be. But still in this language we don't have the presidents in anything else but the president of the church. Even in D&C it is only used when refferring to the prophet or the first presidency. Like in chapter 107. And that has been approved by those who get to approve things. So I think it could be changed.
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Taalcon

Taalcon

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Thanked: 1594 times
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2021, 03:40:53 pm »
Interesting! Curious: How does it present D&C 107:21-24? I just checked it out in Spanish (only other language I can read!), and they use a form of 'President'. What is used for you there, and how does it compare with what is used for 8 & 9? I'm fascinated by these translation options. I'm in contact with someone who works in the Church translation department, very familiar with the standards and rules used across the various languages. I may ask him about this topic!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 03:42:42 pm by Taalcon »
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

cook

  • MembersOnly
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 689
  • Thanked: 768 times
  • Country: fi
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2021, 11:40:57 pm »
D&C 107:21-24 it is presidency and three presidents, because it is about first presidency, also in verse 9 for the same reason. In verse 8 it says Melchizedek priesthood holds the right to lead.

But in 85 it is it is "the leader over the office of deacon" ( though we don't have prepositions but endings on the words, so it is more like leader of the office of deacon), same in verses 86-89. In 90 presidency is johtokunta. Johto means the the leaders, kunta etymology is unclear, it is a very old word, but mainly seems to mean group. So a group of leaders.

In verse 21 it is leading officers, in 60 and 62 also presiding is leading...

So here president and presidency is only for the president and first presidency (which is group of presidents in this language), in the scriptures also, and others are leaders and "group of leaders".

In Finnish preside is to lead, we don't have another word for it. I think it is interesting that the dictionary says that to preside is to only be in charge of a specific (formal) meeting, trial, ceremony or an event. So actually to lead is much broader definition and thus fits it better in my opinion  ;D
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Sparky

Curelom

  • MembersOnly
  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • *
  • Posts: 1819
  • Thanked: 1422 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Church Language Adjustments
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2021, 12:22:22 pm »
One of the first new things I just noticed about language usage was when Bro. Newell gave his customary intro to the General Conference broadcast. He said we would hear messages from “leaders of the Church.” In the past, it’s always been “General Authorities and General Officers of the Church.”
 
The following users thanked this post: cook, Roper, Sparky, Taalcon

 


* Calendar

October 2021
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30
31

No calendar events were found.

* Recent Posts

Re: SP asked and I delivered by dyany
[Today at 08:23:06 pm]


Re: Rambling by Iggy - book 2 by LMAshton
[Today at 02:16:16 pm]


Re: SP asked and I delivered by Enochscion
[Today at 01:03:14 pm]


Re: The Saga chapter 2 by pnr
[Today at 12:59:54 pm]


Re: SP asked and I delivered by Jana at Jade House
[Today at 12:48:42 pm]


Re: The Saga chapter 2 by AndrewR
[Today at 11:15:51 am]


Re: The Saga chapter 2 by Jen
[Today at 10:17:43 am]


The Saga chapter 2 by Jana at Jade House
[Today at 10:14:52 am]


Re: Rambling by Iggy - book 2 by Jana at Jade House
[Today at 09:41:49 am]


Re: Rambling by Iggy - book 2 by pnr
[Today at 09:15:30 am]


Re: islam -a special experience by Taalcon
[Today at 08:53:36 am]


Re: SP asked and I delivered by Taalcon
[Today at 08:46:53 am]


Re: Rambling by Iggy - book 2 by Iggy
[Today at 01:46:46 am]


Re: SP asked and I delivered by Iggy
[Today at 12:56:42 am]


MOVED: SP asked and I delivered by dyany
[Today at 12:55:13 am]

* Top Posters

Roper Roper
2307 Posts
Curelom
1819 Posts
dyany dyany
1358 Posts
Taalcon
887 Posts
N3uroTypical N3uroTypical
745 Posts

* Board Statistics

  • stats Total Members: 120
  • stats Total Posts: 17014
  • stats Total Topics: 1219
  • stats Total Categories: 8
  • stats Total Boards: 35
  • stats Most Online: 613

  • averages Average Posts: 9
  • averages Average Topics: 1
  • averages Average Members: 0
  • averages Average Online: 22

* Forum Staff

AndrewR_admin admin AndrewR_admin
Administrator
dyany admin dyany
Administrator
Roper admin Roper
Administrator
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2021, SimplePortal