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Jason

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Fundamentalists
« on: September 13, 2021, 11:53:45 pm »
I have noticed a growing movement of fundamentalists who reject the current prophet in favor of what they view as the more authentic prophet of Joseph Smith, sometimes Brigham Young, and often Ezra Taft Benson when he speaks about communism. They are very vocal online.

I think the saying, "A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house" might be applicable, but with regard to times instead of location. It is hard to follow a prophet who tells you to do things that you do not like. It might be easier to romanticize living in a different era.
 
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Curelom

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2021, 01:45:28 am »
I think this is also why many people of various beliefs categorically reject the idea that there can be ongoing revelation or living prophets.

It's easier to have everything already carved in stone & simply follow what's been there in the carvings for 2,000 or 3,000 years. It's a bigger challenge to see a modern, living person, who looks very much like the neighbor next door, your kids' school principal, or some other ordinary dude, as a chosen prophet of God, & be asked to put what he says on the same par as what Moses or Isaiah or Paul said.
 
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cook

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2021, 10:33:52 am »
And can I say here how much I hate about people basing their views on socialism (or actually socialdemoractism) on what Benson has said ages ago about communism. And justifying being jerks by those statements.

 
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JLM

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2021, 10:38:03 am »
Somewhat ironically, church leadership, CES in particular, are partially to blame. By teaching a whitewashed version of church history that effectively deifies past church leaders, it sets up an expectation of current leaders that cannot be met.

All of us are deeply flawed, and we would learn and grow much more if we studied the mistakes, biases, errors and erroneous teachings of our past prophets as well as their triumphs, humility, sound decisions and time tested doctrine.
 
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Scruffydog

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 03:57:35 am »
If you decide that you do not follow the teachings of the current prophet, then you are putting yourself outside the Church. One of our fundamental principles is that we sustain the Prophet as the prophet, seer, and revelators and the only person with all the keys. It means that you are relying on your own understanding rather than revelations from the Lord, it is extraordinarily prideful, and it means that you only support the Church insofar as it is in line with your own prejudices. We don't seem to have any of that over here that I am aware of, but we are rather on the fringes anyway
 
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Sweet William

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2021, 11:56:23 am »
There's this guy "Eric Mustous?" that keeps posting Facebook quotes from prior prophets that can be wrested to imply that we should reject vaccination under every circumstance.

Many of my "no vaccination under any circumstance" neighbors and Utah facebook friends just eat him up.  I had to stop following him, because I kept getting flamed for posting what I considered to be common sense questions and thoughts.  Not that I know everything, by any means.  I'm no medical expert.

The vaccination has been good for me, and all of my family members, even some who had diseases like MS and the like.  We are all so grateful that we had it (Moderna version).  See?  Ironclad anecdotal evidence!!  LOL  I am perfectly willing to allow that others had different experiences.  I was really afraid until a man who I accept as a LITERAL prophet of God said to go ahead and get the vaccine.  I prayed about it, and felt the traditional "This is a good thing for you" comfort I get when The Spirit is directing my actions.  I allow that others could receive a different answer. 

Whenever a friend posts something from a prior prophet that is at odds with the current prophet, it bears research.  Sometimes it really is.  Sometimes, when read in its full context, it really isn't.  I have been unfriended by neighbors, and actually Facebook blocked by two neighbors for replying with this quote from Ezra Taft Benson (a current favorite of my anti-vaccination friends and neighbors):

From his Talk:  "14 Fundamentals in Following the Prophet"
Quote:
Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

Godís revelation to Adam did not instruct Noah how to build the Ark. Noah needed his own revelation. Therefore the most important prophet so far as you and I are concerned is the one living in our day and age to whom the Lord is currently revealing His will for us. Therefore the most important reading we can do is any of the words of the prophet contained each month in our Church Magazines. Our instructions about what we should do for each six months are found in the General Conference addresses which are printed in the Church magazine.

Beware of those who would set up the dead prophets against the living prophets, for the living prophets always take precedence.
Close Quote
 
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Jason

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2021, 12:25:24 pm »
They justify their rejection of the modern prophet by claiming personal revelation to the contrary.
 
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Jen

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2021, 02:27:16 pm »
One of these friends of mine, who has about every comorbidity (obese, diabetic, other health issues) was put on a ventilator last night. How I wish I could turn back time and convince him to be vaccinated.
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2021, 03:54:08 pm »
The Denver Snuffer people seem to be adopting the QAnon stuff.  Fun, fun, fun!
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Sweet William

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2021, 05:23:28 pm »
They justify their rejection of the modern prophet by claiming personal revelation to the contrary.

What I posted kind of predicts this.  Although most people are not rejecting the prophet per se, but rather the occasional teaching therefrom.  We have to be able to accept this possibility in many gospel aspects if we want to avoid contention, and create a Zion society, but it is soooooooo hard.  We've had this experience on many issues in the past; for example:

I feel that I should vote a certain way.  My neighbor feels just exactly the opposite.  We are both active members striving to live our covenants.  I must accept that she or he has received a different answer than I did, even if I believe my answer is correct.  In fact, President Oaks' talk from the April 2021 conference, entitled "Defending our Divinely Inspired Constitution" allows just for this, at least in my interpretation of it.

And my personal fave, about which I have been smacked down before (but which is kind of irrelevant now):  "Over 100 years of prophets of God have said that Boy scouting is the activity arm of the Aaronic priesthood.  So feel free to follow the prophets and do young men's according to the handbook."  But then I must accept that you have received the inspiration that basketball every Tuesday needs to be the activity for our ward's young men.  As you can see, I clearly never accepted basketball as prophet-cancelling, handbook-cancelling revelation.  :)

But on the vaccines and masks issues, we kind of have to trust that church members are following the direction of The Spirit.  It's kind of awkward to even ask that question, though:  "Um, yeah a man who we accept as a prophet of God, and his 14 other church leaders have printed in the handbook of instructions that vaccines are safe and effective.  They have asked us to receive this vaccine, and to follow local guidelines regarding mask use.  So, now why have you chosen otherwise?"  Those last seven words are probably outside my personal stewardship.  :)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 05:32:38 pm by Sweet William »
 
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Sweet William

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2021, 05:24:46 pm »
The Denver Snuffer people seem to be adopting the QAnon stuff.  Fun, fun, fun!

I worry that some of my neighbors are falling into that trap, too. 
 
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Sweet William

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2021, 05:48:03 pm »
One of these friends of mine, who has about every comorbidity (obese, diabetic, other health issues) was put on a ventilator last night. How I wish I could turn back time and convince him to be vaccinated.

I have a neighbor with whom I got in a bit of a Facebook argument regarding the vaccine and our contradictory anecdotal evidence.  I promise I was good, and didn't go into "follow the prophet, you sinner" mode.  I didn't even come close.  My love for her and our past friendship made me stop with the conversation, but not before I feel we had created an emotional distance with which I am not pleased.

Well (and you know this was coming) she was admitted to the hospital.  Luckily not ventilated, and recently released.  I am so grateful that I experienced joy and relief at the news, and not one hint of shadenfreude on my part.

We really have to strive to stay away from that.  Ya know shadenfreude.  It will make us better people if we can.  :)
 
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Roper

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2021, 08:07:39 pm »
Perhaps this is our modern version of the Passover. If you don't follow the counsel of the living prophet, there's a very real chance you will lose a loved one. It's happened in my community.
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: Fundamentalists
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2021, 05:53:09 am »
My village buddy here is fully vacced.  and he hubby. Both are nurses.  they did not really want to but it was part of the job.  Their 20 year old at home daughter is worried about long term effect thus unprotected.  This is a kid I have known since gestation and would never use responsible adult to describe her now.

Pops takes eldest not at home daughter and her two friends somewhere in a closed car no masks.  Pops bring home the bug from exposure to the two friends, who tested positive.  Pops gives it to Mama.  They both become symtomatic breakthrough cases.
They cannot work, and are under quarantine.  He is still tired, she is coughing constantly and looks to have aged 10 years,

In the meantime, at home daughter has not caught the virus, mostly because everyone is sequestered in their rooms and when she wants to use the kitchen or shared bathe they text and her sick parents drag around and disenfect and open windows and so forth.

And because daughter tests negative she goes to work. in food service.

It makes me crazy.
 

 


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