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Author Topic: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others  (Read 157 times)

cook

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Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« on: June 27, 2021, 01:28:30 pm »
Some background first before I get to my real question...

I don't know if some or  many of you are members of the facebook group called Worldwide Unified. It was first called something else and it was about all of us fasting together for the pandemic like president Nelson asked. Then it evolved into a group where people mostly post requests for prayers for themselves or for others. Some post are more along the line of support given to some who are struggling.

There is so much stuff it is impossible to follow. But some of it comes to my feed occassionally.

I believe in prayer. I believe in praying for others. In the temple people pray for unkown people and I believe it is a good thing.

I don't quite know how I feel about that group and the way it works. I like that it has people from all walks of like, different religions and backgrounds, all over the world. I like that people feel they get help and support.

I don't necessarily believe that more prayers is more effective. I do believe that praying for the same cause unites people and does a lot of good for them.

I do not know if people have always asked permission for their posts from those they ask people to pray for.

But I know that if I found out that someone has found out my family has had something to happen to us, like a car accident, an illness or what ever and I would have maybe shared it with some relatives, friends or even the Ward, maybe even asked them to pray for us, and then posted about that and asked for prayers on our behalf, I would not like it, even if it was without our names or photos or "my sister-in-law" or what ever.

So the question is: what does that tell about me that I would hate it, it would irritate me, it would affect my feelings towards that person very negatively.

If a friend told me I have been praying for you on the other hand fills me with love and gratitude.
 
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Palmon

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2021, 07:41:45 pm »
That you are a private person, which is neither a positive or negative personality trait.
 
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pnr

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2021, 08:29:09 pm »
I'd be furious too.   We should be able to get help from those we ask without being social media'd/gofunded without knowledge or permission.   And people should not need to/expect to solicit prayer from everyone for causes/suffering.
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
 
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Roper

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2021, 01:53:02 am »
If I share something in confidence, I expect it to be kept in confidence, and not shared with others on social media. That's happened to me a few times. I don't share confidential things with those people anymore.

On the other hand, prayers are between me and the Lord. If I want to pray for someone, I'm going to do it. I don't need that person's permission. The real value, I believe, is that prayer will inspire me to do something to help.
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2021, 04:01:39 am »
Quote
I believe in prayer. I believe in praying for others. In the temple people pray for unkown people and I believe it is a good thing. /quote]
I agree the power of prayer is a fact in my life. I have a special private prayer circle of people of faith that I call on now and then to tap into the power of a non-temple but nonetheless effective prayer circle. It is humbling.
Quote
I don't necessarily believe that more prayers is more effective. /quote]
But we regularly send names to the temple for just that reason.  NAMES.
Quote
But I know that if I found out that someone has found out my family has had something to happen to us, like a car accident, an illness or what ever and I would have maybe shared it with some relatives, friends or even the Ward, maybe even asked them to pray for us, and then posted about that and asked for prayers on our behalf, I would not like it, even if it was without our names or photos or "my sister-in-law" or what ever. /quote]
This is not the first time in my life that I have seen this opinion. It truly baffles me. To the point that I read this thread first thing today and I am putting off my morning business to respond bothered me. I understand nowadays if your name and identifiers were broadcast on social media that is intrusive and not good practice, I believe in privacy.  But to belittle prayers on my or my loved ones behalf goes against my grateful heart. I have seen too much in my long life that prayer has made a real difference.
Quote
what does that tell about me that I would hate it, it would irritate me, it would affect my feelings towards that person very negatively.
If a friend told me I have been praying for you on the other hand fills me with love and gratitude. /quote]
I cannot answer that question in a way that would be helpful to you. 
I guess there are two camps on praying for others.

Quote
We should be able to get help from those we ask without being social media'd/gofunded without knowledge or permission.   And people should not need to/expect to solicit prayer from everyone for causes/suffering. /quote]
I am troubled by this statement and I am not sure exactly why.   Social media is a modern telephone tree in my life. I only have comparatively few folks who can see much on my page and even fewer in my private prayer circle.  So even if I did ever use identifiers,  the whole world and its uncle would not see it, just folks who are prayerful and glad from the heart to add their thoughts and prayers in a time of need.  I see it as an extension of my covenant to hold up the hands that hang down.  And my believers in other flocks are happy to be witnesses in their own way.  We don't feel expectation, nor pressured. So again, I am baffled.

Quote
That you are a private person, which is neither a positive or negative personality trait. /quote]
Indeed but, we send our names to the temple so ....what is the difference....that a not temple prayer request is going to be honored by believers from another flock?

Let me tell you about my latest experience.  Last November I had a free ambulance journey to high care in the university hospital.
My heart went crazy and crazy it stayed for hours even with drugs.  If the afib would not respond, then they would admit and the next day shock that muscle into submission.  Now THAT was not on my bucket list.  So I sent out a FB shout to my beloveds.
Within minutes, my heart beat dropped and started to regulate.  I did not have to go through the rigors of hospital stay and other measures.  I know that my request for prayer was honored.
 
I am trying my best to offer my viewpoint without giving anyone hard time or bad feelings.  I just thought to share where my 71 year old brain is with respect to prayer life. 
The prayers of faithful believers is wonderful.  I have prayed for surgeons hands, the Comforter for those who mourn, wisdom for people in limbo.

And then I have a list next to my bed of names of those who need daily inclusion in my prayer life.  Some of you are on it. 

So there, that is off my chest and now to get started with the day.
 
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AndrewR

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2021, 06:17:09 am »
Quote
If I want to pray for someone, I'm going to do it. I don't need that person's permission.

And that seems to be perfectly in line with the Lord's injunction to "pray for those that despitefully use you."

Praying for someone, and asking a whole bunch of other people to pray for someone, are two different things.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2021, 10:45:28 am »
I guess this topic is a good way to understand why people get ticked off when we do temple work for their ancestors.

I'm in the 'more the merrier' camp.  A handful of times when my family has had a surgery or a car wreck or something, I've had random nonLDS coworkers tell me they asked folks to pray for me.  What a cool thing to work with people willing to do that for me!
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2021, 11:31:23 am »
The Temple Name process has a unique dynamic. It allows for a) a physical act to demonstrate a feeling/desire b) The act of communal prayers over a unique individual and problem c) without needing to publicly reveal the name/affliction, knowing that it is known to God and d) making it so the person offering the name or the people offering the prayers are not in a position to be publically seen presenting a name.

It protects privacy, does not permit the potential posturing for a public presentation of a person who 'needs help', while at the same time promotes the practice and power of prayer.
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2021, 02:40:18 pm »
Yes, Taalcon I know that.  Even though somebody must administer the prayer list names  contributed online and in person. and so indeed a name could be seen by a person.
 
I personally do not understand how in a private prayer circle group asking specific prayers for "someone in my world" equates to public posturing or an invasion of privacy.  No identifiers . 
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2021, 04:59:23 pm »
Sorry, Jana, I wasn't pushing back, talking/explaining something directly to you, or taking a position regarding private groups.

The thread just made me think about some of the unique aspects of the Temple prayer roll. I was expressing appreciation for it out loud, that's all.
 
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dyany

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2021, 01:10:55 am »
There is a modern term called 'virtue signalling' that I believe applies very well to public prayer groups. I'll let you look up the definition.
I also  am reminded of Christ's comment of the rewards for those who pray publicly.

I am a cranky, distrustful old woman who has learned some of the distrust from virtue signallers around me.
 
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cook

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2021, 03:27:00 am »
Thank you Jana and others for your thoughts. I did ask for them :-)

Maybe this demonstrates better my feelings. My brother and I are in the same Ward. If my brother lost his job, I'd feel I can pray for him and as a fsmily we can pray for him, whether he asks for it or not. If he asks certain people in the Ward to pray for him, that's fine. If he asks the whole Ward to pray for him, that's fine. If someone hears about it and decides to pray for him, that's ok. If someone gets a feeling to pray for him without knowing why, that's ok. If he asks me to ask people I know pray for him, that's ok. But it's not ok that even if he has asked me to pray for him, I ask others to pray for him, with or without telling them why. And especially not ok to do so over the pulpit in a group meeting.

A family few years back had a premature baby and asked the whole Stake to pray for them in the Stake facebook group. It is fine. It created a feeling of unity, cause and awareness of the help needed which was then easier for the people to give.

Was the baby more blessed because more people prayed for him? I don't believe that. It would put people in unequal positions - those with access to more people praying would be better off than those who only offer the pleads to God themselves. There sometimes is a feeling that more faithful people praying guarantees the result we hope for. When my mother died of cancer after many faithful people in the Ward and Stake prayed  for her to get better, when offering condolences to me 9I had to often be the one to support their crumbled faith in that moment. (I probably have shared before, I felt it was her time to go, so I could not pray for her recovery, but was led to pray that she would not have any pain. She never had pain, even at the end and the doctors were very puzzled about it).

I believe in praying in behalf of other people. Especially for those around us and when the Spirit tells us to pray for someone. I've been told many times to pray for someone, out of the blue, without any idea why and also without ever knowing if it did anything. I've been told to pray like that to people I may have just passed by on the street. So I do believe prayers open the doors of heaven to blessings heavenly Father wants to give us. Sometimes the one opening the door is other than the person itself. But I still don't feel more prayers gives more blessings. It's about the opening the opportunity for the blessings to come and God decides the rest, the type, the amount, the timing and lenght of blessings.

When my close coworker's nephew was in a hospital I prayed for him and told her. It meant a lot to her (not of our faith). When I told her my husband had to go to the hospital, she prayed for him and told me. It filled me with love.

I do think praying together for a cause or praying for someone is more about unity, love and like Roper said, finding ways to help the person. It is a very important thing. If I'm the one needing prayers, knowing that people care about me enough to pray for me makes a huge difference. That itself helps the healing and dealing with any situation. If I felt that I need the prayers in order to have God's will and good things happen, it might do a disservice because that would mean that somehow I think my prayers aren't enough, I am not enough for God to act. And such a thought is not what God teaches. I know it sometimes may be what people feel like. But I think we should help people to gain spiritual confidence rather that feed that thought.

I think praying in the temple is different. First of all, even though a few people see the names, they do not know the cause for the prayer. If I've written my child's name there, if someone I know sees the name, they still don't know if she's struggling with health, faith, sexuality, studies or if I just felt inspired to put her name there.

I don't think the power of the prayer at the temple comes so much of the amount of people praying (It varies too, so if the amount mattered it would be unfair that sometimes it is 6 people and sometimes 10) and there still is only one saying the prayer. I think the power is in saying the prayer in the House of the Lord.  I think the process is to teach us about prayer. I don't quite know what, but maybe for example that in order to pray for another person we should not have negative thoughts and feelings towards other people. Any other people, not just the person we are praying for. That to find the best connection with God would require good connections with people around us. Or that the basis of prayer is about covenants. When we pray to God and ask for blessings, we actually make covenants - to keep his commandments so that he can bless us and to actually help and support those people (and others) we pray for. Or that there is power when parents pray together for their children and they should do it regularly. Or that we can be unified in a cause. Or something else.

I think one thing that bothers me about the group is what Dyany brought up. The same scripture came to my mind too. Over 560 000 people is not a small group of friends or even a Stake. On the other hand I do think it is great that there is a way for those who may not have anyone close to them, maybe not anyone believing, to ask for someone to pray for them when they need that extra love and support. Especially if they are people who don't yet believe really themselves but are on the road to belief. I'm sure the support many feel there is important to them.

Then the matter of what to pray for when asked for prayers is another topic itself.

And I do believe that unified fasts and prayers for things - like the pandemic, missionary work etc - is a different matter than praying for individuals. Though in those I think the benefit is in people talking about the matter and while thinking about the matter, being inspired to do things.




« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 02:30:14 pm by cook »
 
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dyany

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Re: Worldwide Unified -group and prayers on behalf of others
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2021, 11:02:53 am »
I completely agree with you, Cook. And I know the group of which you speak, as I had been invited to it in the first couple of days, and I left (RAN AWAY) in less than a week. It felt very much like a great and spacious building of virtue signalers, which I absolutely despise.
 
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