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Patty Rain

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #360 on: July 11, 2021, 05:38:20 pm »
I heard that Utah has 70% of people over 18 being I think fully vaccinate.  With all the kids then numbers that measure all people won't tell the correct story.   When you account for kids do the numbers still work the same?
Time for a change.  I am yungmom, but have wanted a new username for some time.
 

Roper

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #361 on: July 12, 2021, 01:09:34 am »
For Utah:

44.5% of all Utahns have been fully vaccinated.
55% of Utahns over 12 have been fully vaccinated.

I got the info from the Utah Coronavirus dashboard here: https://coronavirus-dashboard.utah.gov/vaccines.html

Here's the statistic I think is concerning: Of the 3,279,345 vaccines delivered to Utah, 2,902,020 have been administered. That's 377K vaccines in storage. Maybe those shots are waiting for people needing their second dose. I live in Utah. There is a lot of politically motivated resistance to the vaccine here. There are no problems with supply and/or access. It think the government needs to say,  "Okay. The vaccine has been available for four months. If you want it free, then you have two more months. After that, we're sending the vaccines to people who need and want them. If you want it in the future, you'll have to order it and pay for it yourself."
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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Jen

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #362 on: July 12, 2021, 02:18:50 am »
Same in Idaho, roper.

My husband had his stake TR interview today, where he found out that one of the wards in our stake didn't meet this week because of a COVID-19 outbreak in the ward. But I'd say most people in our stake still don't think it's a big deal.
 
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Enochscion

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #363 on: July 12, 2021, 11:08:52 am »
Just got my first dose today. They had all three so they gave me the choice of which I wanted. The online registration said you wouldn't be able to choose, so I just avoided Jannsen since I'd heard it was less effective, and went with Moderna because the paper with it was physically closer to me and I don't remember hearing of any important differences between Moderna and Pfizer.

We're almost at 70% of adults on my island, and they just decided to add a raffle for weekly cash prizes and a free car to get the remaining 5k+ people needed for 80%. I was planning on going today anyway (just got a vehicle after a year of carlessness), but that's a nice little bonus possibility.

We don't really have the virus here because of the lock down procedures (they get positives on incoming travelers in quarantine every so often, but there have been very few cases on island). We have still been under masks and distancing and all of that stuff the whole time though. They're finally relaxing a bit on the masks in some places. Missionaries haven't been wearing masks for a few weeks now.
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #364 on: July 12, 2021, 11:16:28 am »
I just avoided Jannsen since I'd heard it was less effective, and went with Moderna because the paper with it was physically closer to me and I don't remember hearing of any important differences between Moderna and Pfizer.
High-five!  Go team Moderna!

What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Taalcon

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #365 on: July 12, 2021, 01:39:24 pm »
Governonr Cox just acknowledged there was an oopsie in reporting that 70% number.

I heard that Utah has 70% of people over 18 being I think fully vaccinate.  With all the kids then numbers that measure all people won't tell the correct story.   When you account for kids do the numbers still work the same?
 
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dyany

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #366 on: July 12, 2021, 11:20:19 pm »
Quote
most of the people at risk of severe disease, hospitalization and dying have been vaccinated.

While this is partially true, this is a false generalization. While many vulnerable have been vaccinated, many of the most vulnerable are vulnerable because of cancer, auto-immune diseases/disorders, or other conditions in which case even if they have been vaccinated, their bodies haven't been producing the necessary antibodies necessary to fend off the disease. So a hefty segment of our most vulnerable, despite their best intentions and doing all the 'right' things, still rely on herd immunity.

And I can't help but give the anecdotal evidence of my far-right ward: the biggest protestors to pandemic precautions were the elderly and the vulnerable. The most ignorant and resistant to compliance were the vulnerable elderly. The first to stop wearing masks were the elderly and the vulnerable. And while I don't know for sure, I have a bad feeling that many of them didn't vaccinate, because most I see are of the mindset that the pandemic was a hyped-up political stunt to oust their Beloved Leader and make money for Bad and Selfish People, and they don't trust the MSM or Big Science.
When day comes we step out of the shade,
aflame and unafraid
The new dawn blooms as we free it
For there is always light,
if only we're brave enough to see it
If only we're brave enough to be it
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #367 on: July 14, 2021, 11:33:10 am »
While many vulnerable have been vaccinated, many of the most vulnerable are vulnerable because of cancer, auto-immune diseases/disorders, or other conditions in which case even if they have been vaccinated, their bodies haven't been producing the necessary antibodies necessary to fend off the disease. So a hefty segment of our most vulnerable, despite their best intentions and doing all the 'right' things, still rely on herd immunity.

This is true.  This is also not new.  Medically fragile and elderly people have been dying of flu and whatnot, by the tens of thousands in the US every year, forever.  The vaccine is a wonderful thing, but it's not a "get out of the inevitable end of our mortal probation free" card.

I'm not brushing aside how much worse COVID is from the flu.  A bad flu year kills maybe 60,000 Americans, and Covid seems to be around 5-8 times more deadly.  But in a lot of ways, now that there's a vaccine, the human desire to return to normal kicked into high gear, and people will just plain accept there's a new more deadly flu out there. 


Quote
And I can't help but give the anecdotal evidence of my far-right ward: the biggest protestors to pandemic precautions were the elderly and the vulnerable. The most ignorant and resistant to compliance were the vulnerable elderly. The first to stop wearing masks were the elderly and the vulnerable. And while I don't know for sure, I have a bad feeling that many of them didn't vaccinate, because most I see are of the mindset that the pandemic was a hyped-up political stunt to oust their Beloved Leader and make money for Bad and Selfish People, and they don't trust the MSM or Big Science.

I know endless folks like this, and I'm about 35% one myself.  I mean, not the conspiracy or ignorance, but the general attitude.

A story:
Right before the shutdown, I was having lunch with a bunch of cardiac patients in their '70's and '80's.  We were discussing COVID.  About half the table held a "don't care" attitude, the other half had a "bring it on" attitude.  Nobody was in denial about anything.   It dawned on me, these folks had an ever-increasing list of health risks and issues that would eventually kill them.  And they had an ever-shrinking list of things that made life enjoyable and worth living.  Getting old and decrepit and then dying, is a natural progression of all humanity that isn't killed off earlier in life.  And these folks had all accepted that.  Dying quickly of the flu held a certain appeal, to people who were facing down the prospect of a long wasting away disease, or expensive and humiliating hospice care. 

My response to COVID was a no-brainer.  Got a wife, my kids still need me, still growing my career, still have my health, still able to do service in my church, and I am still enjoying life.   Those folks had one, maybe two of those things left.  They did not fear death.  They did not want to suffer or make their loved ones suffer.   

It was a striking perspective that has stuck with me to this day.  There's a practical wisdom in some of these 'ignorant far-right compliance resisters'.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 11:35:42 am by N3uroTypical »
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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dyany

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #368 on: July 14, 2021, 12:15:07 pm »
I understand and agree that our culture in general fears and avoids death too much, and it hurts us in many ways.  And I have worked long-term with many elderly and/or disabled with similar attitudes.

But I have also seen a bit more when I work with them long-term, and in my own state of often wishing for death. The biggest thing is that we think death would be better, but very often, there is a terror and will to live that still kicks in, but often too late. There is also the fact that, for the most part, there are family members that will miss those vulnerable people far more than the vulnerable believe. Is it good for those family members to learn to let go and accept that death is a part of life? Yes. Is it unreasonable to do some extreme measures to extend life when quality is too low? Yes. But we still need to fight against the fading of the light. The fact that the Church specifically prohibits any kind of euthanasia is proof of this.

There are also a lot of factors that don't have to do with death. The number one being the long-haulers. I have a friend who is a long hauler. She was a healthy, vibrant, 35 year old who loved scuba diving with sharks. Now, her life has been nearly destroyed by the disabling long-haul symptoms. I have even seen some very vulnerable people, older and unhealthy, who survived it, and are the worse for it. Then there is the fact that every person who gets this is a petri dish in which the virus can mutate into more deadly and more contagious strains.
It's not just about 'letting' people die who might welcome it. It's far more than that. Is that worth refusing vaccination and refusing to wear masks? I don't think so.
When day comes we step out of the shade,
aflame and unafraid
The new dawn blooms as we free it
For there is always light,
if only we're brave enough to see it
If only we're brave enough to be it
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #369 on: July 14, 2021, 01:31:20 pm »
we think death would be better, but very often, there is a terror and will to live that still kicks in, but often too late.
I've heard this from multiple folks in the medical and end-of-life care fields.  "Folks have all sorts of advance directives and do-not-resuscitate orders.  And yet every time  they come to us conscious on a gurney, and we explain the risks of what we're going to do, and ask them if they still want us to honor their DNR, to this day not a single person has said 'yes'."

Quote
There is also the fact that, for the most part, there are family members that will miss those vulnerable people far more than the vulnerable believe. Is it good for those family members to learn to let go and accept that death is a part of life? Yes. Is it unreasonable to do some extreme measures to extend life when quality is too low? Yes. But we still need to fight against the fading of the light. The fact that the Church specifically prohibits any kind of euthanasia is proof of this.
This honestly has nothing to do with COVID.  It's a part of the human condition, going on around us everywhere, all the time.   It's just we have all spent a year thinking/talking/legislating about it, and we're more able to see where others sit on the issue by what's on their face. 

Quote
Then there is the fact that every person who gets this is a petri dish in which the virus can mutate into more deadly and more contagious strains.
Again, humans have always been petri dishes in which viruses can mutate into different strains, ever since we left the garden of Eden.  This is literally, never not true.

Quote
It's not just about 'letting' people die who might welcome it. It's far more than that. Is that worth refusing vaccination and refusing to wear masks? I don't think so.
I appreciate and respect your opinion.  Let's be very careful about all that talk about 'letting' someone else exercise their agency, because we disagree with them and think they may bring harm on themselves and others.  I was thrilled to hear Colorado's governor lifted the state of emergency a little while ago, and ended every single statewide order and mandate.   I think our rates of suicide, domestic abuse, divorce, mental illness, and addiction, that had spiked terribly high in the last year, should start slowly going back down to pre-pandemic levels. Now everyone needs to get back to work before inflation turns into stagflation and millions start hurting.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 01:33:09 pm by N3uroTypical »
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Roper

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #370 on: July 16, 2021, 03:16:33 pm »
Let's be very careful about all that talk about 'letting' someone else exercise their agency, because we disagree with them and think they may bring harm on themselves and others.  ...  I think our rates of suicide, domestic abuse, divorce, mental illness, and addiction, that had spiked terribly high in the last year, should start slowly going back down to pre-pandemic levels. Now everyone needs to get back to work before inflation turns into stagflation and millions start hurting.

Amen, brother.

Putting all the procedures in place to mitigate the spread of Coronavirus in school--that was a challenge. A far bigger challenge is dealing with grownups who have been sitting at home with nothing to do, so they turn their attention to how the school should change to be in lockstep with their own political convictions, and then they write endless confrontational emails to me. I have work to do. Hopefully, they also will soon have work to do.
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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Jason

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #371 on: July 17, 2021, 09:27:10 pm »
I still stand by my statement that most of the people at risk of severe disease have been vaccinated, as the largest group of vulnerable people are the elderly, and they have outstanding vaccination levels. But as Dyany and N3uroTypical have pointed out, there is still a substantial number of immunocompromised people and others who are unable to get vaccinated or produce antibodies when vaccinated. Even if this group is not the largest percentage of vulnerable, they are probably the current most important to consider when wondering whether a young, healthy person should get the vaccine. Protecting this group is where the Libertarian philosophy would consider mandatory vaccinations an appropriate action, as the Libertarian believes that ones individual right to punch into the air ends when the fist reaches someone else's nose, and spreading infectious diseases to people who cannot protect themselves is punching them in the nose. I would encourage everyone who does not have a physical contraindication to get the vaccine.

The Delta Variant is spreading through the United States very rapidly. We are a few weeks behind the UK's delta variant experience, and our graphs will likely closely mimic them. This week every one of the 50 US states had a rise in Covid cases. Areas with high unvaccinated rates will be hit the hardest. Vaccinated people will also test positive, and some may even be hospitalized, though overall they will tend to have less severe disease. As a percentage of positive tests, hospitalizations and deaths will be less this wave than last winter, but with the sheer number of positive cases, there may be strain on the health care system in some areas.

The increases will happen just in time for school to start, which will give fodder to the teachers to try to shut down schools again for another year. I think my school district will have enough backbone this year to have my soon to be first grader attend in person, but I worry about the others.

Long Covid is now more fully being recognized as a real problem. King's College is seeing 1-2% of positive cases of people in their 20s and 30s will develop long Covid, and perhaps 5% of people in their 60s. From a news source I listened to today, there are over 300,000 people in the UK who have had long-Covid symptoms for over 12 months. That is a lot of long term disability.
 
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Jason

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #372 on: July 22, 2021, 02:17:18 am »
Myanmar is potentily going to have a huge death toll within the next few months. There was a recent military coup with a resultant collapse of their health care system. It is estimated that 50% of their population will contract Covid within the next several weeks, and with no health care and no oxygen, up to 5% of those people will die. Population 55 million. That could be 1.3 million deaths over the next 2 months.

Edit to add that this information was from John Campbell, who gives daily updates on Covid. It looks like he got his information from the Asia Times News site, but he also said he had a few contacts from within Myanmar. 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 10:36:29 am by Jason »
 
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Jason

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #373 on: July 26, 2021, 01:12:02 am »
New information on why the Delta variant is so much more contagious. It has vastly increased the amount of viral particles it forces one to produce. The viral load is 1200 times greater. Every cough, every sneeze, every fricative spews 1200 X more virus into droplets and aerosols. We know that viral load is a big factor in infection. That is why a short pass in the hallway was less risky than a long face to face conversation. With 1200 X more virus being produced, I wouldn't be surprised if even school children start becoming vectors. Previously their breaths, coughs, and sneezes were not large enough to transfer enough viral particles, but now it is 1200 X easier.
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #374 on: July 26, 2021, 11:17:21 am »
Fortunately, once vaccinated, chances of getting a breakthrough infection are low, and the health risks seem to be quite close to zero.  As far as I can tell, it's too early to see if Delta is following the usual progression of contagious viruses by being more easily transmissible but less harmful.   But one hopeful data point, is that unvaccinated children that are now getting the delta variant, remain pretty much totally out of hospitals and morgues. At rates at least as favorable as when infected with the original strain.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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