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Author Topic: COVID-19  (Read 20738 times)

Jason

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #330 on: June 05, 2021, 06:30:02 pm »
I am interested to find out more about the origin of the coronavirus. It is looking more likely that it was a lab leak. The cover up of that story is probably the bigger story, whether the media who claimed it was debunked and falsely fact checked because they hated Trump or the deep-state/NIH not wanting the USA's involvement in China's gain of function research to come to light. Both need to be investigated.

How the March 12, 2019 Barcelona sewage sample plays into this is also interesting. That might have come from someone from Wuhan traveling to Spain, perhaps before the virus had mutated to a more infectious variety. I would hope that other countries check their samples to gauge the early spread.
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #331 on: June 05, 2021, 10:27:43 pm »
Sometime in June (did not catch the date) we can sign up to reserve one of 30 seats in the chapel. no idea what kind of restrictions to follow.  Since my driver will not be fully ready for groups until mid July he might not be happy to go sit in a pew just yet.

but I got to hug my friend for the first time in 18 months this week.
 
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Palmon

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #332 on: June 10, 2021, 08:37:37 pm »
Before you encourage young people to get vaccinated, watch carefully the information coming in now. In the US, rates of myocarditis is twice the rate expected in young men 15-24. In Israel it is much higher.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cdc-heart-inflammation-cases-ages-16-24-higher-than-expected-after-mrna-covid-19-2021-06-10/
 
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Jason

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #333 on: June 10, 2021, 09:59:39 pm »
The mRNA vaccine is given intramuscularly. The muscle cells take up the mRNA and begin making it right there. The mRNA decays and is metabolized in the muscles. It doesn't go anywhere else. Or at least it is not supposed to. The muscles have a lot of blood flow. Some are hypothesizing that occasionally some of the mRNA vaccine is injected into the blood stream rather than into the muscle tissue. mRNA is typically rapidly destroyed in the blood stream, but if some made it to the heart's blood flow and was taken up into the heart muscles, it could induce an immune response in the heart muscles. This might be the cause of the myocarditis.

Some are also hypothesizing that when giving the mRNA vaccine they should pull back on the syringe prior to injecting, to see if they are intravascular. This would catch obvious intravenous injections, though it wouldn't prevent capillaries from taking up the mRNA.

Fortunately this is a very rare problem that mostly is not too serious. Heart issues with the actual virus Covid are much more common.
 
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Palmon

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #334 on: June 10, 2021, 10:52:33 pm »
Jason, that is an interesting hypothesis but would not explain why this is happening to young men in particular and not so much other age groups. As I said, if you have young relatives, it is something to watch and maybe not be in a hurry to vaccinate them, especially since in the age groups affected by this, the virus is not really a big deal. But that is just my uneducated opinion, which means that it is just that - an opinion.
 
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Jason

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #335 on: June 11, 2021, 12:18:07 am »
Perhaps because young men have more muscles (which are highly vascular) and an exuberant immune response. Females and younger children do not have as much muscle mass, so it would be less likely. Older people do not have such an exuberant immune response.

While it is still a rare and mostly harmless complication, as age decreases we really start having to weigh the pros and cons of getting vaccinated. I still think there are 2 main benefits to consider which should be weighed against the cons.

1. Does it benefit the individual? No, it doesn't really provide health individual benefits to the young. Most are asymptomatic. Some have a cold. Some do develop long Covid, which is not pleasant. And there will be a few who do end up being hospitalized or dying, but this is less common than with the flu.

2. Does it benefit society? The younger one gets, the less likely one is to be a major transmitter of the virus. I think under age 12 will not become super spreaders. They just are not very tall to spread droplets very far. And they do not produce nearly as large a viral load in their exhaled breaths, probably due to their smaller breaths. Over age 12 starts to behave more like adults, so there is probably a societal benefits for them to get the vaccine.

Cons? Getting side effects and complications starts to become less worthwhile when there is only marginal benefits to getting vaccinated. At this point any adults they do end up spreading it to have chosen not to be vaccinated. It is not the responsibility of the youth to protect those who will not make the choice to protect themselves.

What about protecting those who cannot get vaccinated? That would be far less of a problem if enough healthy adults were vaccinated. Major outbreaks wouldn't be able to get a foothold.
 
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Roper

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #336 on: June 11, 2021, 01:01:51 am »
As always, thank you for the medical perspective, Jason. My 17 year-old son and 15 year-old daughter have both been vaccinated, now. The next in line won't be 12 until next March. He's never had any symptoms. He's mostly around other kids his age. All the adults at school have been vaccinated. Parents and grandparents have been vaccinated. The other adults he's in prolonged contact with are at church. No idea, there. So, I'm thinking we might hold off for him and little sister.
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 

Palmon

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #337 on: June 16, 2021, 12:29:11 am »
Quote
A group of parents in Gainesville, FL, sent 6 face masks to a lab at the University of Florida, requesting an analysis of contaminants found on the masks after they had been worn. The resulting report found that five masks were contaminated with bacteria, parasites, and fungi, including three with dangerous pathogenic and pneumonia-causing bacteria. Although the test is capable of detecting viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, only one virus was found on one mask (alcelaphine herpesvirus 1).

The analysis detected the following 11 dangerous pathogens on the masks:

Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumonia)
Mycobacterium tuberculosis (tuberculosis)
Neisseria meningitidis (meningitis, sepsis)
Acanthamoeba polyphaga (keratitis and granulomatous amebic encephalitis)
Acinetobacter baumanni (pneumonia, blood stream infections, meningitis, UTIs—resistant to antibiotics)
Escherichia coli (food poisoning)
Borrelia burgdorferi (causes Lyme disease)
Corynebacterium diphtheriae (diphtheria)
Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires’ disease)
Staphylococcus pyogenes serotype M3 (severe infections—high morbidity rates)
Staphylococcus aureus (meningitis, sepsis)

The masks were either new or freshly laundered prior to being worn for 5-8 hours. 5 were worn by kids, one by an adult.

https://rationalground.com/dangerous-pathogens-found-on-childrens-face-masks/
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 12:31:57 am by Palmon »
 

cook

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #338 on: June 16, 2021, 06:27:42 am »
That is an interesting study. Do people really wear masks for that long? Here the older kids had to wear masks at school too. They pretty much change them between lessons. If you take it off, it goes in the bin. (If you wear a recyclable one,you have 3-5 during a school day).

Could it also mean the masks work? Would it all have gone inside tge person without the mask?
 

cook

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #339 on: June 16, 2021, 06:31:12 am »
We get to go to church in person this Sunday, for two hours, masks recommended, mandatory when singing, keeping distance and high hygiene and those with health issues encouraged to stay home. The online meetings will continue at least till mid August.

Excited.

During this time I was called as the facilities person  responsible for the cleaning turns etc, so went and cleaned the church yesterday. The easiest cleaning job ever 😁
 
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Palmon

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #340 on: June 16, 2021, 11:16:10 am »
I don't know how often school kids change their masks but I do know some adults wear and rewear masks without washing.

In the article about the study, it mentions that they used a t-shirt worn by one child and new masks as controls. The t-shirt didn't pick up any pathogens, but it did pick up proteins from hair, skin, nails and dirt. I'm not sure that means anything because they only used one t-shirt and maybe it was worn by one of the three kids whose mask didn't pickup any pathogens.

I think the study highlights questions that should be studied. I don't think it answers any. Perhaps this small study could be used as a warning to wear masks like the Finnish do and change them frequently.
 
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Roper

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #341 on: June 16, 2021, 02:46:17 pm »
Tangentially: When the students at my school were required to wear masks, one parent told me that wearing masks is filthy and is way more harmful than "breathing free." She said, "I should know. I have advanced degrees in the hard sciences." Nope. I still have her resume' on file from last year, when she applied for a paraprofessional position. She has an Associate's degree in general studies.  ::)
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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dyany

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #342 on: June 16, 2021, 08:58:06 pm »
Never trust anyone that claims an 'advanced' degree in 'hard sciences.'  ::)

One study does NOT science make. Science REQUIRES replicability (and tons of it) of study results. Single studies are fodder for panic-inducing pseudo-science reporting because they can seem dramatic without actually being worth a hill of beans.
Now, if you want some things closer to real science, you have to look at the hundreds of studies that show, over and over, that wearing masks reduces infections. Of most sorts of pathogens, but COVID strains have been particularly tracked in more recent studies.

This is one of the reasons I DESPISE science-evangelists--they muddy what real science actually is. Yes, science tells us lots of things. But far too often, in an effort to 'prove their point,' the s-evangelicals (yes, I'm looking at N d'GT and his ilk) overstate some conclusions in a condescending way, like they are a done deal. Almost no science is a 'done deal.'  Even stuff we've had around for centuries is generally still in 'theory' stage, and we are always collecting data. That's what science is really about: constantly collecting data to improve our understanding. If quite a few studies seem to indicate a trend or correlation or, possibly, a causation, then we can start to lean more on those findings, but the snooty "it's SCIENCE" claims, which act like questioning and studying is over, are wrong.

In this case, the sample size (6 masks) and testing conditions (parents sending the masks to a lab) are so small and so poorly controlled as to warrant almost complete dismissing of the results right out of the gate. The fact that the site is neither a peer-reviewed journal nor associated with or citing a peer-reviewed journal taints the results even more. But even IF the 'study' had, against the rules of research, valid results, it wouldn't mean that masks are dangerous. On the contrary, it could mean that the masks caught all those pathogens, stopping their transmission.
If I believed their 'study.'
Which I don't.
When day comes we step out of the shade,
aflame and unafraid
The new dawn blooms as we free it
For there is always light,
if only we're brave enough to see it
If only we're brave enough to be it
 
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Roper

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #343 on: June 17, 2021, 12:35:11 am »
Almost no science is a 'done deal.' 

Precisely. The aims of science are to explain and to predict, not to establish certainty. Furthermore, nothing in the natural world or in human experience has been scientifically proven to be certain. The true scientists I know are the most sincerely humble and keenly inquisitive people I've ever met. They're constantly asking questions and seeking for possibilities. I don't think "certain" is a word a real scientist would ever use.
Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself. - John Dewey
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #344 on: June 17, 2021, 09:53:59 am »
I have maybe 3 or 4 novelty masks I ordered like March and April of last year.  I wore them throughout the pandemic, and never washed any of them.

Happy to be putting all this in my rear view mirror.  It's growing more and more normal to go somewhere in public and see almost no masks.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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