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Author Topic: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER  (Read 303 times)

Roper

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2020, 05:00:14 pm »
I think the combination of life experience, consensus among the Q-15, and the guidance of the Spirit qualifies as "expertise" when it comes to the teachings and policies of the church. (Notice I didn't say "infallible" or "omniscient.") When compared to my knowledge of medicine, law, physics, business administration, education, etc., I will humbly admit that I am outclassed.

All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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JLM

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2020, 05:10:54 pm »
Tremendous respect to Pres. Nelson for his contributions to heart surgery.  I’m still struggling with his rather ignorant and eye roll worthy comments he made back in the mid 2000’s about the Big Bang and biological evolution.

My view with regards to authority is: I may not agree with you on everything, but I will try to help you succeed in your mission nonetheless.
 
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Jen

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2020, 03:08:57 pm »
I believe the Proclamation on the Family to be true and inspired. I also believe there's a lot we don't understand about mortal things that happen even in fetal development that complicate a person's perception of their gender. I also think it curious that SO many young people now call themselves "non-binary", as if it's a fashion like "goth", but I'm not going to put myself in a place to judge an individual's intentions.

I do know that I got to know someone in my daughter's band who is hurting very much, and for whatever reason decided they identify as the opposite gender to the one they were born. Another band parent has been their youth leader at church and really struggles with this and refuses to call them by their chosen name. I wasn't sure where I stood with it, but felt very strongly that this child needed my love and acceptance, and the least I could do was use their chosen name. Pronoun is still hard for me. But I know this kid comes from a home where they are regularly called "faggot" and hear other hateful things from parents who are supposed to love them unconditionally, so I'm ok with my job just being to love and accept them when they're in my charge.
 
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Roper

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2020, 05:48:40 pm »
I understand that there are biological factors. I understand that there are social factors as well. It's the familiar nature/nurture determination. Honestly, I roll my eyes at the "gender-fluid" and "pan-sexual" fads.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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LMAshton

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2020, 05:00:57 am »
Thing is, non-binary has been around for millenium. India is one example where, while non-binary folks aren't exactly welcomed with open arms by everybody, they are known to exist and everyone accepts that they exist and that they have existed for thousands of years, or really, for as long as humans have. They're in movies often enough The difference is that, now, they have a label - non-binary - that is at least mostly recognized in the west.

I'm not going to wade into the rightness or wrongness of things. I know enough to know that it can be complicated from a biological point of view. I read an article a week or two ago that talked about how, according to science, the human brain could express gender in at least nine different ways. https://thenextweb.com/science/2020/02/18/researchers-found-at-least-9-gender-expressions-in-the-human-brain/

Am I saying that there are at least nine genders? No. I'm saying that there's a lot more here than we understand. I'm leaving it to Heavenly Father to sort it all out.

Meanwhile, I love Jen's approach for love and acceptance. I think that's the best approach to take. We already don't have enough love and acceptance for people in general. I think increasing love is a worthy approach to take.
 
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Roper

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2020, 08:29:30 am »
Sex is a biological determination. Gender is a social construct. Social constructs are incredibly complex. They always include a degree of individual choice.

Whatever circumstance we're born into, God cares about the choices we make.

"God loves me just as I am." that's absolutely true. It's not the totality of God's relationship with us.

Moses 7:28-33:

And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the residue of the people, and he wept ... And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep ... The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency; And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father...

John 14:15:

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

When there is a conflict between the society of this world and the society of God, God wants us to choose Him. We demonstrate our choice by loving one another as God loves us, and by keeping His commandments.

All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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dyany

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2020, 12:24:41 am »
Roper, I agree with this. Yes, there are biological factors and social factors and trauma factors and all sorts of things. They give us urges and feelings and desires that may not line up with God's laws--in which case they are called temptations--and make the specific decision to choose God's law over that desire more difficult.
Note that nothing I just said applied specifically to gender identity. Because it doesn't just apply to gender identity, it applies to EVERY temptation that any of us ever experience. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
As such, just as it is wrong to give into my specific temptations to commit suicide (which I'm not experiencing now, but I experience OFTEN), or try to control others, or say mean things to people, or withdraw from society, or give up on trying to work with and improve my body, it is wrong for people with that specific temptation to give in to it, and there are, of course, degrees of wrongness with each temptation, and it usually gets worse the more we feed it.
For instance, if someone's temptation is to have a temper, and they let it run rampant, over the years it WILL get worse, until it will get them into bigger and bigger trouble, possibly even resulting in assault, abuse, or murder. The anger in its original state isn't such a huge thing, though it may be a thorn they would need to battle their entire life. The more we fight our temptations, the more grace we receive, whether or not we are ever able to overcome them in this life.
That's why I think it's super important that the guidelines specifically talk about medical intervention being the deciding factor. Having the temptation is absolutely not the problem. But if you give in to the temptation enough to embrace it, defend it, and take the extreme step of medical transition, well, that shows more than a weakness, it shows choosing that over the Lord's plan.
I love my friend's daughter who has decided to be male. I LOVE her. When I talk to her, I work hard to use the pronoun she prefers because to do otherwise would serve no good purpose. It doesn't matter if I agree with her decision or not. If she ever asked me about my feelings on it, I would tell her that I love her, and I am sorry that she struggles with this internal battle. Because that is what I know I need to do. Just as I love other family members that have struggles and temptations that they give in to, and I can do nothing but watch as they bring so much sorrow on themselves. Because that's what Christ does for us: he gives us commandments, watches us break them and hurt ourselves, and loves us anyway. Even if we never return to Him, He still loves us. He can't save us in our sins, only from them, but He always, ALWAYS loves us. Because that's the only chance of helping us come home.
 
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cook

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Re: NEW GUIDANCE on TRANSGENDER
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2020, 01:43:26 am »
I'm glad we have only one noun for she and he. Makes so many things easier.

We have on clearly gender changing kid at school. It makes things such that you have to think sometimes what to do. There are home issues, there are learning issues, there are all sorts of issues. At times she has to choose, to go with the boys or to go with the girls - like in a sports test, where requirements are a bit different for the sexes. The way the desicion is made (always the easiest, the one that takes least effort) tells something as well. It is problematic...

For the practical reasons I wish we had everywhere single cubicle toilets for both genders etc. so their life could at least in some respects be a little bit easier.
 
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