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Author Topic: Major overhaul of Church Discipline  (Read 1438 times)

AndrewR

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Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« on: February 19, 2020, 09:08:18 am »
Disciplinary Councils are now Membership Councils

Stake Membership Councils no longer require the High Council - except in limited situations

Endowed Sisters now treated like MPh were - Stake membership council if membership likely to be withdrawn.

Primarily it is expected, but not required, that the person's RSP or EQP be with them, not the Bishop.

No formal action is now Remains in Good Standing
Probation is now Personal Counseling with the Bishop or Stake President
Disfellowshipped is now Formal Membership Restrictions
Excommunication is now Withdrawal of Membership

Ward membership councils can only recommend Withdrawal of Membership, the stake president must approve.

That's the major bits.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2020, 09:22:09 am »
There's a LOT in how several things are expressed and laid out. And it promises there will be more substantial material forthcoming.

I think the renaming of what was referred to as Discipline as 'Membership' issues is actually good. Excommunication and Disfellowshipment are archaic terms that bring A LOT of baggage with them, and aren't particularly properly descriptive.

Using the full Stake High Council only in extreme circumstances is also a good move. (It can be VERY traumatic for anyone, no matter who you are,  to appear before more than 15 men in the stake to address and judge and question one's personal 'worthiness' and actions. I've been on the High Council, I've participated in such from that side.)

Reading many sections of the new handbook, it's very clear President Oaks had a very strong hand in drafting it. His specific language and turn of phrase is all over it. It's not surprising, just somewhat interesting. (Just like in the newest update to Preach My Gospel, there's a lot of President Nelson's unique turn of phrase, approach, and specific terminology at play).
 
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AndrewR

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2020, 09:28:12 am »
I wasn't really passing judgement on the changes. But I do feel that on balance they are what was needed.

I think by passing Endowed Sisters up to the Stake Level required a re-thinking of High Council usage.

It will take me a while to get used to the new chapters - and movement of things like Ministering to its own chapter. And not having a physical book will not help since that made it easier to "see" the handbook when I was mentally looking for something.



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Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
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Patty Rain

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2020, 09:39:45 am »
It's interesting that there is a handbook 2 in the gospel library, but there is a big "OBSOLETE" across it.
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Patty Rain

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 09:55:37 am »
Is there a table of contents somewhere? I've always had a tough time locating stuff in the online handbook.

Learned something new. Church historic site presidents have keys.
Time for a change.  I am yungmom, but have wanted a new username for some time.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2020, 10:08:25 am »
Speaking of Oaks' influence, on the section of The Sacrament, they added, "7. Members partake with their right hand when possible."  Tradition and preference now codified as policy. :P
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 10:16:09 am by Taalcon »
 
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CrowGirl

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2020, 10:32:34 am »
Gag
Jump off the cliff and build your wings on the way down.
-Ray Bradbury
 
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Taalcon

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AndrewR

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2020, 11:02:11 am »
Speaking of Oaks' influence, on the section of The Sacrament, they added, "7. Members partake with their right hand when possible."  Tradition and preference now codified as policy. :P

We are a people who take symbols very seriously. And I see nothing wrong in using that concept in this instance. We make covenants with our right hand, but where that isn't possible we do it with the left. This is the same. You were baptised under this sign, taking the sacrament this way enforces this idea. It is very useful, I believe, in helping a child understand the difference between having a piece of bread, and partaking of the Sacrament.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2020, 11:20:29 am »
Speaking of Oaks' influence, on the section of The Sacrament, they added, "7. Members partake with their right hand when possible."  Tradition and preference now codified as policy. :P

We are a people who take symbols very seriously. And I see nothing wrong in using that concept in this instance. We make covenants with our right hand, but where that isn't possible we do it with the left. This is the same. You were baptised under this sign, taking the sacrament this way enforces this idea. It is very useful, I believe, in helping a child understand the difference between having a piece of bread, and partaking of the Sacrament.

Just saw that this is also a very strong opinion that Nelson has had for a while. He wrote about back in the 80s, much like his long-held feelings on the name of the Church.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1983/03/i-have-a-question/is-it-necessary-to-take-the-sacrament-with-ones-right-hand?lang=eng

I DO take the symbols of the sacrament very seriously.

What makes me uncomfortable is ammunition for people to tell others they're 'taking the sacrament wrong.' You take in the Body of Christ. The taking it in is the symbolic part. How you get it off the tray is a delivery mechanism.

Prior to this, someone took the bread, and they ate it. They took a cup, and they drank it. It was a sacred symbolic act. There was no way to 'do it wrong'. Now, someone needs to be corrected in how they partake of the sacrament. This is what is disappointing to me. (A few months ago, before this was official policy, I heard a mother behind me angrily chastise a child for taking the Sacrament with the left hand. It made me very, very sad, and I'm disappointed this will be reinforced.)

I understand why it resonates with those who it resonates with. I can see the continuity between this and receiving the Tokens in the Endowment. But I just tend to dislike more ways for members to feel like they messed up, and didn't do it right. Especially when it comes to the Sacrament. Someone taking it, eating it, passing the tray, and then, Oh no, I took it with the wrong hand, I did it wrong. Or having someone well-intentioned tell them later that they 'did it wrong'. I just ... yeah. It's a little sad for me.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 11:32:09 am by Taalcon »
 
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Roper

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2020, 11:36:33 am »
As Andrew said, there are specific ways we participate in covenants. My own experience is that I was never scolded for doing something wrong. I was patiently taught how to do it.

Is the concern about the nature of the symbol, or is it about the way it's taught?
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2020, 11:42:24 am »
Gag

If you are talking about "right hand," I am right there with you.  Seriously?  We actually took 2 seconds out of our busy lives to care about THAT?
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2020, 11:47:45 am »
Quote
Seriously?  We actually took 2 seconds out of our busy lives to care about THAT?

I assume Church leaders want us to care about it and think about it, seeing as they specifically ADDED it to the handbook where it wasn't there before. And two members of the current First Presidency have given talks in the past that were a lot longer than 2 seconds long explaining why they felt so strongly that there was a RIGHT WAY and a WRONG WAY to do it.

I do take the sacrament seriously. I think about it a lot. It's extremely meaningful to me. And I'd say making an official adjustment to the most regularly repeated sacred ordinance in the Church is worth thinking about.

I'll get used to it. And I won't rebel and do it otherwise just because. But I will share my thoughts on why my initial reactions were what they were.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 11:50:01 am by Taalcon »
 
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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2020, 11:57:22 am »
Whateve's.  I've never NOT taken it with my right hand, and strive to always be fully repentant and worthy of doing so.  When passing or blessing the sacrament, I strive to be worthy and I kindly do my best to represent the Savior in this sacred ordinance.  I try to be reverent before, during, and after the sacrament services, as to not distract anyone from feeling the spirit during this meeting.

But of all the problems and challenges in the universe, things like shirt color, tattoos, and lefty or righty just don't even make my top 300 issues radar.  YMMV.  :)
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Major overhaul of Church Discipline
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2020, 12:01:58 pm »
Quote
But of all the problems and challenges in the universe, things like shirt color, tattoos, and lefty or righty just don't even make my top 300 issues radar.  YMMV.  :)

This is very much my perspective. Which is why I found it odd that they went out of their way to tell us all that we needed to pay attention to it. It mattereth not what we eat or drink, but it mattereth which hand we eateth and drinketh it with ;)
 
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