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Author Topic: New General Church Handbook  (Read 901 times)

Taalcon

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Re: New General Church Handbook
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2020, 11:13:51 am »
Earlier, the Salt Lake Tribune ran a story about the YW changes. Here is what the article said, "Here is the Young Women theme, which was modified to wide praise, especially from Latter-day Saint feminists, in last month's General Conference..."

Andrew has stated essentially what a news article said, just in a different context. I've misinterpreted Andrew's posts before, because I sometimes don't get British sarcasm. Maybe that's the case, here. I just don't see animosity in what he's said.

Well, he pointed to mosquito as essentially making his point. "mosquito has made my point on why they (Mormon Feminists) might be celebrating."

Mosquito wrote:

Quote
They do not believe in continuing revelation. They seem to believe the changes are only a direct result of their complaining and activism.
Often times it feels like they have drawn battle lines in their view of equality. As a woman myself I often feel sad that these particular outspoken women are so angry about men and the priesthood that they have lost sight of some very precious eternal truths.

I'm not trying to disparage intentions, but I'm trying to make clear that point to the extremes as the definition of feminists does the term an absolute disservice. Using the extremes as the main definition is what is  making the word (a word which in its general essence is right, good, and compatible with and in many cases fighting in favor of practical application of actual doctrinal truths against harmful tradition) seem to be used as a pejorative.

I don't think we want to so quickly dismiss those who, among Latter-day Saints, work hard to "ensure basic human rights and basic fairness for women, as well as efforts to encourage women to obtain an education, develop their talents, and serve humankind in any field they choose" as being a fringe group. If you want to refer to the extremists, I would like to suggest trying to be in the habit of getting a bit more specific.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 11:16:10 am by Taalcon »
 
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dyany

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Re: New General Church Handbook
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2020, 12:42:13 pm »
My complaints with Andrew's response were no so much about whom Andrew blamed, but the focus of his response in total. His initial response was simply "another triumph for the Mormon Feminists."  I mean, he could have responded, "another triumph for the anti-abuse zealots" or "another triumph for nosy Parkers" or any other group and my response would have been the same. We should know from history that the Church doesn't really make these sorts of changes because of whiners and protesters. The protesters might prompt a re-examination, which will also involve a lot of prayer, but they do NOT change the policies without a conviction and confirmation from God that it is THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
Whether or not any fringe or even core group takes credit for it is absolutely irrelevant, and the more that we as rank and file members give them credit, even derisively, then the more power they have because they have no power but what we give them.

So, personally, I look at the change with the following beliefs in mind:
-it was prayed over.
-it was decided to be a good and appropriate action by leaders I not only have covenanted to sustain, but whom I respect and admire.
-I can examine and determine my own personal response to the policy directly, rather than filtered through the media or protesters or analysts.
-Regardless of what information may have prompted or contributed to the examination and eventual change (which would have been from MULTIPLE sources, most of which I know nothing about), the ultimate decision was with the Lord and our Church leaders. Any other group who might have been asking for such will not get credit (pro or con) from me.

To immediately jump to seeing this as a triumph for any protest group I feel to be both disrespectful and discourteous to the leaders who actually made the decision, implying that they are weak and easily manipulated by worldly forces.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 11:20:42 pm by dyany »
 
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JLM

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Re: New General Church Handbook
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2020, 12:58:31 pm »
State side, the word "feminist" is often used as a pejorative by radical conservatives, many of whom are in the church.  These individuals often lump all self identified feminists into a single caricature.  Given this history, some of us are a bit defensive to the use of the word in any negative context.  I apologize for misreading in a negative context where none eas intended.
 
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kazbert

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Re: New General Church Handbook
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2020, 01:00:07 pm »
Aside #1, FWIW: Several years back I participated in the creation of a workplace support group for Hispanic employees. The idea was to address the workplace disparities that can occur, disparities that were for years just taken as the norm – just the way things were – and that non-Hispanics did not give much thought to because it wasn’t affecting them directly. I participated in the creation of the group’s charter, mission statement, and goals. At one point in the meeting I proposed that one of our goals should be to put ourselves out of business – that one of the metrics for our success was that, if our efforts were truly effective, the need to have the group should diminish over time. There was perhaps five seconds of silence and blank stares, and then the meeting proceeded as if I had said nothing at all. Unfortunately, I have noticed the same trend in nearly every group that is formed to address disparities of some kind. No matter how much success they have in bettering their lot they continue to act as though it is necessary for them to justify their group’s continued existence. After you’ve corrected the most impactful disparities you get to a point where the efforts to raise the alarm over further disparities just starts to look like nitpicking.

Aside #2: Much, but admittedly not all, revelation is received by asking a question. I think it is fair for a group to feel grateful  for prompting a question to be asked, though God will reveal what He will regardless.
If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
Ronald Reagan
 
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kazbert

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Re: New General Church Handbook
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2020, 01:04:14 pm »
State side, the word "feminist" is often used as a pejorative by radical conservatives, many of whom are in the church.  These individuals often lump all self identified feminists into a single caricature.  Given this history, some of us are a bit defensive to the use of the word in any negative context.  I apologize for misreading in a negative context where none eas intended.

And we should likewise be careful not to reduce the term "radical conservatives" to a caricature. Radical by what standard? Or is it just in the eye of the beholder?
If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
Ronald Reagan
 
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JLM

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Re: New General Church Handbook
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2020, 01:30:02 pm »
I included the word "radical" to not lump all self identified conservatives into one group.  "Radical" in this context is intended to differentiate between vocal minority subpopulation from the main group.  My hope is that the majority of self identified conservatives take a more charitable approach to thise who advocate for women's needs.
 
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Roper

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Re: New General Church Handbook
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2020, 02:35:12 pm »
Andrew: "Indeed, another triumph for the Mormon Feminists."

I consider this a triumph. Although, I don't label myself as a feminist of any stripe, because I don't like being labeled, but if others call themselves that, then okay. I'm pretty sure I'm on record here advocating for women's equality in the church. This is a triumph for all of God's children, and a testimony of continuing revelation.

Andrew: "One of the bug bares of the LDS Feminists is that only nine women had access to Handbook 1."

That's true. Unless you search out the bootleg copy online.

Andrew: "I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just something else that they will take as a triumph, and take upbridge at."

I take Andrew's expression to mean that Mormon Feminists will take credit for pressuring "The Brethren" into making the change. That's true, also. I know one self-proclaimed Mormon feminist who said exactly that today. Which is what Mosquito described, and Andrew agreed. I don't see judgement here, just statements of fact and probabilities.

So, I see two things going on in a lot of the responses: 1) A distinct willingness to interpret Andrew's words uncharitably. 2) An eagerness to get offended on behalf of other people.  I don't think either is warranted. Andrew's really conservative, but he's not the kind of guy who ridicules other people who think differently from him. From my interactions with "Mormon Feminists," they are intelligent and articulate people who are very capable of advocating for their beliefs and positions. They don't need others to get offended on their behalf.



« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 02:38:36 pm by Roper »
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 

 


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