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cook

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Re: Gathering
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2019, 09:30:08 pm »
Yep, that's the Rissian tale.

There's a tale about Christ visiting the UK also, though the belief seems to be it happened when He was alive. I love that song Jerusalem, it was our mission song. There's a story of an early apostle having an experience confirming the idea of Christ in England too. https://www.google.com/amp/s/stephenliddell.co.uk/2015/04/04/did-jesus-christ-visit-england/amp/
 
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cook

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Re: Gathering
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2019, 11:35:55 pm »
Oh, and also, there are legends about Jesus not dying on the cross but escaping and dying in India and in Japan, which could easily be stories about visits after resurrection that has bern altered through the years. He is also thought to visit France, but I think that was during his lifetime.

I'm sure there are also other legends I'm not aware of.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Gathering
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2019, 10:40:16 am »
So I started (yet another!) re-read of The Book of Mormon, and something hit me following reading through 1 Nephi 15.

In the 19th Century, while many had theories of Native Americans being descendants of Lost Israelite Tribes, and others viewed them as being simply Unreachable Pagans, the Book of Mormon suggested a different nuanced approach:

No, they're not one of the Lost Tribes, but! They do have an ancestral connection to the Sacred Ancient Divine Covenant, and suggested they were also gifted with the Gospel. They aren't an artifact, they were and are part of your people. And the mission isn't to discard them, or to bring them something Completely New, but to awaken their ancestral memory, and to fulfill the covenant that was given. Restore to them what was is rightfully there, and make them once again part of "us".

It was a unique moment in U.S. history that gave that perspective traction, and a physical symbol of the idea that I think was a type of the general principle that was the ultimate intent, and would only come to be revealed later as additional theological understanding folded out:

Every human on earth, no matter what society, culture, or tradition they have been a part of, ultimately are individuals who had a primordial covenant with God that we seek to rekindle. The Book of Mormon talks about a branch cut off from Israel, who went on to get more. Those are stories and symbols very much on the mind of the generally religious minded, and easy to grasp, and follow geographically through a story. Certain passages in the Book of Mormon even raised the question (without answering in specifics) what other specific cultures in the past rose with a legitimate connection to God's Covenant that needed to be discovered and rekindled? What are other nations thought of as being "others" but are really part of the same "family" as you, but just don't know it yet?

But the ultimate truth, perhaps, would be to guide minds to accept that all of us began as part of God's Covenant Eternal Family. That nobody is of a line or lineage that was completely separate from the full covenants and needed to be brought in out of nowhere, or are just inherently lost, or inherently 'pagan' or 'other'.

No matter what the line the human cultures took, even if there is absolutely zero way to trace any actual connection with Ancient Israel or Christianity at any point in their development, because they are human, the perspective is that all should be seen as part of the covenant people who just need to be 'reconnected' and made aware of their connection to the Eternal Family.

We're all Covenant Children of God. And the gathering is ultimately of that divine family. Ancient Israel and Nephites are helpful framework stories to help us get the general concept. But in the scheme of things, they are just that - a smaller framework to help us understand and grasp something far wider.

The gathering of Israel is the story we tell to help lead us to the gathering of humanity. The Book of Mormon participates in helping  us made the connection for seemingly otherwise disparate nations and communities to see them as part of the story. It elevates our perspective, and helps us be more receptive to seeing the Bigger Picture.

All are alike unto God. It's the gathering of humanity as one family.

This perspective helps me understand the role of the Book of Mormon a little better in terms of its role in "gathering Israel" - it is an important step along the way in expanding our view of humanity, and being open to see potential covenant people of God EVERYWHERE.

This is taught in general by Paul, but the Book of Mormon was for Christians who, millennia later, still didn't get it, and kept wanting to establish boundaries and 'others'.

Unfortunately, even many who HAD the Book of Mormon eventually used it to perpetuate this idea rather than to see its ultimate message that clearly taught against it.

Steps forward, steps backward, steps forward, etc. Line upon line.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 10:54:35 am by Taalcon »
 
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AndrewR

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Re: Gathering
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2019, 10:58:56 am »
Taalcon,

You never cease to amaze me. I have been a member almost my entire life. With the benefit of parents who studied, learned, and then taught me. I have read quite a bit, and pondered too.

However, the level to which you consider things like this are truly inspiring. I should do half of what you do, and if I did would be a better person for it. But I guess there is a complacency in my religiousness that leaves me happy to not worry - and I am not sure that is a good thing.

Thanks for giving me the chance to think about things I would not have even realised needed thinking about.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Gathering
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2019, 12:03:07 pm »
Andrew, thank you. That ... means a great deal to me.

Our own personalities and perspectives and drives lead us to the insights (and the people) we need. This is how I express -and even fight for- my own faith. And that includes listening to and learning from your perspectives and insights, too.
 
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