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JLM

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Re: Temple
« Reply #105 on: January 08, 2019, 11:03:29 pm »
Thank you for your comments, Dyany.  I like your perspective.
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: Temple
« Reply #106 on: January 09, 2019, 09:47:40 am »
Just to add my individual experience.  I became a member as a divorced mother of two at 26.  It was not until I was 40 that temple attendance in any form was encouraged for me.  There were various explanations why, and I myself felt unworthy to be endowed so it was not a priority.  My endowment present from God was my beloved companion. I firmly believe that. Who knows if we will ever be sealed.  Until Dyany put it into words, the access and obedience issue was not on my mind, but now as I think of it the phrase priestess to your husband probably bothered me a bit, but only because Himself is stiffnecked and inflexible....even though a sterling person in every other way.  I grieve that sealed people have not been completely satisfied with the covenant language.  Because I have never been sealed to a spouse, I possibly was oblivious.  The longer I live the more I know I do not know.  I expect to attend in March with the Crow family for our annual visit.  I think hearing the changes in English first will be helpful.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #107 on: January 09, 2019, 03:17:35 pm »
So I found this interestingly relevant quote from what happens to be the diary of one of my wife's ancestors:

"Prest Snow informed me he had not been able to obtain information why women were required to vail their faces when at prayer in the Temple." - Samuel W. Richards diary, Sept 12 1894

It's somewhat amazing to me with all the descriptions and explanations given to so many other details at the time, the leadership of the Church - including those of the First Generation who would have been with Joseph and Brigham Young - did not even have an explanation of why this was being done while still in the 19th Century.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 04:08:00 pm by Taalcon »
 
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Grunt

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Re: Temple
« Reply #108 on: January 09, 2019, 05:23:08 pm »
So I found this interestingly relevant quote from what happens to be the diary of one of my wife's ancestors:

"Prest Snow informed me he had not been able to obtain information why women were required to vail their faces when at prayer in the Temple." - Samuel W. Richards diary, Sept 12 1894

It's somewhat amazing to me with all the descriptions and explanations given to so many other details at the time, the leadership of the Church - including those of the First Generation who would have been with Joseph and Brigham Young - did not even have an explanation of why this was being done while still in the 19th Century.

Why is that amazing?  There are numerous things that haven't been revealed to us.
 

GoodyScrivener

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Re: Temple
« Reply #109 on: January 09, 2019, 05:41:39 pm »
My two single sisters received their endowment 32 years ago with no mission or husband in sight for either of them.
Taalcon, could you please link to where you got that information. Thanks.

Replying without catching up to the thread.

As recently as three years ago, my daughter was being told no recommend without mission or marriage. In Rexburg.
 
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Iggy

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Re: Temple
« Reply #110 on: January 09, 2019, 07:45:09 pm »
My two single sisters received their endowment 32 years ago with no mission or husband in sight for either of them.
Taalcon, could you please link to where you got that information. Thanks.

Replying without catching up to the thread.

As recently as three years ago, my daughter was being told no recommend without mission or marriage. In Rexburg.
Different Bishops/Branch Presidents and Stake Presidents, different mind sets.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2019, 04:50:06 pm »
Just got back from the Temple.

Yeah, go check it out. The opening FP introduction leaves no confusion for the reason and intent behind the revisions.

It was a very uplifting experience, and was heightened by listening so intently for the many subtle (and not so subtle) changes in wording all throughout. Definitely gave me some new things to think about.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 04:59:57 pm by Taalcon »
 
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Jacaré

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Re: Temple
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2019, 11:41:36 pm »
I understand the endowment ceremony has been significantly shortened. Do I understand correctly?
"He was old, Ephraim. He was 52."
 
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cook

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Re: Temple
« Reply #113 on: January 17, 2019, 12:24:18 am »
I think it's about back to what it used to be before the longered version. Didn't time it specifically, but got home about the same time as before the new versions. Of course there are variations in did we start on time and how many people there. But yes, shorter than the longer versions.
 
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AndrewR

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Re: Temple
« Reply #114 on: January 17, 2019, 07:47:09 am »
Only robing once will decrease the time by a few minutes.

Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #115 on: January 17, 2019, 09:19:51 am »
One more thing: I came away very happy for non-English speakers, because the new format allows them to have the EXACT same experience English speakers have, and not have to deal with mismatched lips and words.
 
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cook

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Re: Temple
« Reply #116 on: January 17, 2019, 10:18:05 am »
It's never the exactly same experience because the words have different meanings and feelings attached to them in different languages, no matter how well they are translated. And in most countries where things are dubbed, people are used to that. (We use subtitles in tv and movies)

But guess what. It's actually better (that neanings nay differ) because it helps one understand that the understanding doesn't come from the words and analyzing them, but from the Holy Ghost.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #117 on: January 17, 2019, 11:11:45 am »
That's always going to be true, and its true to each individual within a given language (even English) to a degree.

Along those lines, one thing that was apparent to me - a little bit of the wording in the English version was adjusted not as much to change intended meaning, but to make it easier to more clearly and consistently translate the idiom. It's clear international accessibility has been a big concern in recent versions of the presentation, and I believe this next iteration (aside from the substantial teaching elements adjusted) really pushes forward in this regard.

An individual who works in the Church translation department (and specifically worked on localization of the new endowment presentation) has said that when they translate, they historically are free to try to maintain, as much as possible, any ambiguity in the English to the target language. That there were only a few key areas where very specific direction and meaning were asked to be maintained.

That said, there were several places where new language was added to more firmly clarify a common idea that had previously left some ambiguity, and in other areas to clearly correct ideas that no longer are seen as correct.

There's quite a bit to take in when considering the many adjustments that were made, throughout several of the ordinances in the Temple, and how they relate.
Apart from the Well Publicized Ones, there are some others that were surprising/curious to me that I'm still processing.

If there's going to be substantial readjustments in the paradigm of Church teaching, I can't think of a better place for it to be manifest and internalized than in the Temple. I expect as soon as these are processed and become seen as standard and not 'new', we'll be pushed forward again with new adjustments in Temple teachings to ponder.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 11:17:43 am by Taalcon »
 
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beefche

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Re: Temple
« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2019, 03:37:51 pm »
I was finally able to attend an endowment session. I'm curious, the introduction in the beginning by the First Presidency, was there something similar when the new endowment films were introduced (sometime in the 1990's I think)?
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #119 on: February 04, 2019, 12:56:20 pm »
Because it was relevant to something brought up before, this is a cool new essay up on lds.org on the topic of Masonry. Relevence to the discussion of the development of the Temple.

The whole essay is good, but I like the concluding paragraph:
Quote
There are different ways of understanding the relationship between Masonry and the temple. Some Latter-day Saints point to similarities between the format and symbols of both the endowment and Masonic rituals and those of many ancient religious ceremonies as evidence that the endowment was a restoration of an ancient ordinance. Others note that the ideas and institutions in the culture that surrounded Joseph Smith frequently contributed to the process by which he obtained revelation. In any event, the endowment did not simply imitate the rituals of Freemasonry. Rather, Joseph’s encounter with Masonry evidently served as a catalyst for revelation. The Lord restored the temple ordinances through Joseph Smith to teach profound truths about the plan of salvation and introduce covenants that would allow God’s children to enter His presence.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 08:40:09 am by Taalcon »
 
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