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Taalcon

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Temple
« on: January 02, 2019, 08:47:51 am »
So... it appears substantial new changes in the presentation of the Temple Ordinances were launched in Nauvoo yesterday, and are apparantly rolling out this week everywhere else.

Just a heads up.
 

Curelom

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Re: Temple
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 09:02:05 am »
Hmmm. 

By "presentation," it doesn't sound so much like changes in the substance of the ordinances, but perhaps sequence, wording, actions by participants? (Like a few years ago when patrons were not directed to stand as often as previously, or some of the changes in the initiatory from past years).

I am due for a temple visit & will have to go to Sacramento again, or maybe in Fresno if I happen to be farther south in my travels. From parts of the Bay Area south of San Francisco proper, it can be just as easy to go to Fresno & not go through the central Bay Area traffic, The Oakland Temple has been closed since February for major renovation, & the rededication will be in June with several weeks of open house in May.
 

Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 09:22:31 am »
That was my choice of wording. What I've heard goes beyond that, and would very much change the take-away messaging of key parts. And it's not just the Endowment.

I don't want to say anything more specific lest it turn out to be incorrect and have people give hopes up.

I can't make it today, but wanted to give those who might a heads up.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 09:50:15 am by Taalcon »
 

libertygranny

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Re: Temple
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 10:23:37 am »
Hubby and I are subbing a shift today. He heard about the change coming last week so we are very curious to 'see' what happens. We have seen many changes in the past 40+ years and all for the good, so any changes now will also be for the good.
 
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AndrewR

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Re: Temple
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 12:00:59 pm »
The two being most mentioned are change to the obedience covenant for sisters to make it the same as for brethren. And no more veiling.

The LDS Feminists will be rejoicing at another win for them. If they can manage to kill off Oaks they may get the priesthood next.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 

cook

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Re: Temple
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 12:21:33 pm »
Please do tell what you can when you've verified changes by being present. I fear they come a little bit later to our corner of the world. (Attending temple tomorrow).

With all the changes about so many things, I hope people can take them the right way. That we are not changing because people want this and that, or because things have been wrong in the past, but because the church is supposed to be practical and does see doctrine and culture and practises as different things. Sometimes change is slower than in the prevailing culture for various reasons and some things don't change.

I personally like many of the "old" things about the temple, the ancient things, for I feel they in a way connects me more to everything that hasbeen before me and in a way to the eternal perspective, but I understand it is me - the same way I just loved my parents telling me over and over about the times of their childhood and their grandparents and loved watching very old movies. I understand for many clinging to ancient becomes an obstacle.
 

Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2019, 12:26:44 pm »
I have seen a post by a member in Tonga noting they were surprised and excited by new changes when they went to the Temple this morning, not having heard about anything beforehand.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 12:30:28 pm by Taalcon »
 

Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2019, 02:02:20 pm »
I've seen trustworthy individuals affirming that these are accurate representations of the changes.

This is huge. VERY theologically/doctrinally significant.

The history of scripture and revelation is moving the story forward and helping us to get closer, and closer to a more accurate view of God, and our Heavenly Parents' relationship to us. It's a restoration of knowledge of the Heavenly Ideal, not just a single point we can pinpoint that existed in our mortal history. It seems with every big burst of story-changing new revelation, a few bits of interpretive tradition get mixed in, and survive for a while until they too get pared away by the progress of further Light and Knowledge not leaving room for them anymore. We're getting closer and closer, and the future is bright. And we should absolutely expect more missteps along the way, because that's how this all works. Because God is God, but humanity is stubborn.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 02:17:05 pm by Taalcon »
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2019, 02:36:39 pm »
https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2019-01-02/church-releases-statement-on-temples-48702

tl;dr: "Things change in the Temple from time to time. We're not going to talk about it."
 

Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2019, 04:34:22 pm »
 

Jen

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Re: Temple
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2019, 05:11:58 pm »
(Why give the Trib the benefit of anyone's attention? Glorified tabloid.)

I'm no feminist, and would welcome the changes. I'd also welcome no change. I figure if something doesn't sit right, either it will eventually change, or I will.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2019, 05:37:17 pm »
I think we simply have different views of the value of the volume of Peggy Fletcher Stack's contributions.
 
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curlybat

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Re: Temple
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2019, 08:36:00 pm »
Quote
VERY theologically/doctrinally significant.

From what has been leaked so far, I would have to say no, the changes are not theologically/doctrinally significant and don't appear to be theological/doctrinal changes at all.
Still TheOne and only me who happens to now be curlybat.

Nauvoodle since September 2001 (#431)
 

Taalcon

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Re: Temple
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2019, 09:37:16 pm »
I respectfully, but very strongly disagree.
 

dyany

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Re: Temple
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2019, 11:39:20 pm »
I find the timing of this interesting, because my husband and I had a discussion about this scripture in Matthew 19 just earlier this week:
Quote
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Basically saying that there are aspects of the law that exist not because they are doctrinal, but because we are weak and naughty and can't handle the pure doctrine at the time.  Generally I think this would be because of cultural mores and taboos so deeply ingrained in us that we see deviation from them--even given from God--as bad, so God lets his prophets make adjustments to policies to ease people along (or because the prophet himself is weak).  That doesn't necessarily make a specific policy, nor the people who gave the policy, bad (though they sometimes are), just as it doesn't make current policies that may not be doctrinal (such as no tattoos) BAD.  I personally see policies like that like training wheels.  They aren't core to the bicycle nor necessary for the bike to function, and in fact can hinder full and proper functionality of the bicycle at top performance.  But they are very useful for getting used to the bike and helping the rider through new or difficult circumstances. 

All this being said, if I understand what the changes are, I am weeping for joy.
 
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