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Author Topic: Yay! The original Nauvoo Thread "The Big One" from 2010!  (Read 444 times)

N3uroTypical

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Re: Yay! The original Nauvoo Thread "The Big One" from 2010!
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2018, 06:30:38 pm »
noel
Member #1306

  posted January 24, 2010 10:56 PM                   
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PF,

"Have (I) ever read section 98 all the way through?"...  , and I am aware of the context. Perhaps we could take some time to go through it here. It may help in your reconciliation effort.
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Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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Pink Floyd
Member #275

  posted January 24, 2010 11:01 PM                   
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I don't think I need your help when I have George Q Cannon to help me.

thanks anyway.
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Posts: 9570 | Registered: Nov 2000
 
 


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LoudmouthMormon
Member #6140

  posted January 24, 2010 11:11 PM                   
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Back in 2003, Pres. Hinkley tried to reconcile the issue, at least for our military members. It's good reading.

War and Peace

This places us in the position of those who long for peace, who teach peace, who work for peace, but who also are citizens of nations and are subject to the laws of our governments. Furthermore, we are a freedom-loving people, committed to the defense of liberty wherever it is in jeopardy. I believe that God will not hold men and women in uniform responsible as agents of their government in carrying forward that which they are legally obligated to do. It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression.

LM

[ January 24, 2010, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: LoudmouthMormon ]
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roper66
Member #1765

  posted January 24, 2010 11:29 PM                   
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quote:
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I personally have no problem with someone whose pacificism results in their own death. I do have a problem with pacificist policy that permits the death of innocents.
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Noel, what do you think of Alma 14 (Alma and Amulek at the place of martyrdom) applied to our time? Do you think it's possible for the Spirit to restrain someone from responding, thereby permitting the death of innocents?
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Posts: 3575 | Registered: Sep 2005
 
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 24, 2010 11:36 PM                   
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LM- well that clears up our misunderstanding. I am not a of the military.
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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cocobeem
Member #2302

  posted January 24, 2010 11:37 PM                   
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quote:
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 Do you think it's possible for the Spirit to restrain someone from responding, thereby permitting the death of innocents?
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Obviously it's possible, cuz that's what happened. The Spirit can tell you to kill or whatever... I don't think anyone's debating that.
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Posts: 2822 | Registered: Sep 2006
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 24, 2010 11:49 PM                   
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Roper,

As Coco pointed out, of course it is possible, but look for a moment at what is actually occurring.

In verse 11, Alma makes clear to Amulek that God is setting the stage for His vengeance in the blood of the innocent who will testify against their oppressors. It is not a calculus which I would ever come to on my own.

Vengeance is His alone.
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Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 24, 2010 11:58 PM                   
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quote:
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 Would you assume any gun, which was handed to you, to be unloaded?
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I personally do not. However, I would assume that any responsible firearm owner would use an unloaded gun while teaching their children. I will have to let lemontree make the final answer to whether or not they use loaded firearms, as in reality I do not know for sure.
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Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:05 AM                   
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EDG said,

quote:
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 Just so you know, white hot hate aside, Mirk has put up with me for a couple of years. That probably says more about his character than it does mine. I read his blog, get his emails, and send him tips on ag issues when something comes up.

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Yea, well someone has to try and convert you from your evil ways and get you to buy a Glock. You know there is a Gen 4 model being released... 
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Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 25, 2010 12:07 AM                   
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Of course there is a Gen 4 model, they have to keep trying to get it right.
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:12 AM                   
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Josh said,

quote:
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 its 9mm bulet bounces around the inside of the body to cause grevious wounds. The reason they are only designed to maim is because military techs found out it took more people to look after a wounded chap then to bury a dead one.
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I will agree with the bolded part.

9mm was designed to kill. A 9mm round will kill just as easily as the .40, .357 and .45.


Oh dear...I may have just started the caliber war of words...
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 12:14 AM                   
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Mirkwood,

LM has since clarified that the photograph is not of his children. It was taken from the web.

My point relative to the content of that image, is that the adults who staged the picture obviously did not have the sense to;

- Know that guns are not props for child's play.

- Instruct the kid's in responsible handling.

- By inference, placed loaded weapons in the hand's of the kid's (for all they knew).

- Set a pattern of gun safety which will result in tragedy.

I do not chalk it up to moral deficit, but ignorance. I do not believe anyone wants to cause the suffering, or death, of their children.
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Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:16 AM                   
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EDG:


quote:
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 Of course there is a Gen 4 model, they have to keep trying to get it right.
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Heathen   
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Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 12:17 AM                   
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P.S.;

The 9mm parabellum originally had a frusto-conical nose. It was definitely designed to kill.
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Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:19 AM                   
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noel, I'm not going to disagree with any of that, except this part:


quote:
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 - By inference, placed loaded weapons in the hand's of the kid's (for all they knew).

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Maybe I missed something somewhere, but are we just making an assumption that the guns are loaded, or is there something that tells us they are loaded and I missed that?
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Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
"Somebody should have set a match to this place long ago."
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Yay! The original Nauvoo Thread "The Big One" from 2010!
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2018, 06:31:40 pm »
noel
Member #1306

  posted January 24, 2010 10:56 PM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PF,

"Have (I) ever read section 98 all the way through?"...  , and I am aware of the context. Perhaps we could take some time to go through it here. It may help in your reconciliation effort.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pink Floyd
Member #275

  posted January 24, 2010 11:01 PM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

I don't think I need your help when I have George Q Cannon to help me.

thanks anyway.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 9570 | Registered: Nov 2000
 
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LoudmouthMormon
Member #6140

  posted January 24, 2010 11:11 PM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in 2003, Pres. Hinkley tried to reconcile the issue, at least for our military members. It's good reading.

War and Peace

This places us in the position of those who long for peace, who teach peace, who work for peace, but who also are citizens of nations and are subject to the laws of our governments. Furthermore, we are a freedom-loving people, committed to the defense of liberty wherever it is in jeopardy. I believe that God will not hold men and women in uniform responsible as agents of their government in carrying forward that which they are legally obligated to do. It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression.

LM

[ January 24, 2010, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: LoudmouthMormon ]
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Posts: 530 | Registered: Aug 2007
 
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roper66
Member #1765

  posted January 24, 2010 11:29 PM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
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I personally have no problem with someone whose pacificism results in their own death. I do have a problem with pacificist policy that permits the death of innocents.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Noel, what do you think of Alma 14 (Alma and Amulek at the place of martyrdom) applied to our time? Do you think it's possible for the Spirit to restrain someone from responding, thereby permitting the death of innocents?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 3575 | Registered: Sep 2005
 
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 24, 2010 11:36 PM                   
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LM- well that clears up our misunderstanding. I am not a of the military.
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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cocobeem
Member #2302

  posted January 24, 2010 11:37 PM                   
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quote:
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 Do you think it's possible for the Spirit to restrain someone from responding, thereby permitting the death of innocents?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously it's possible, cuz that's what happened. The Spirit can tell you to kill or whatever... I don't think anyone's debating that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 2822 | Registered: Sep 2006
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 24, 2010 11:49 PM                   
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Roper,

As Coco pointed out, of course it is possible, but look for a moment at what is actually occurring.

In verse 11, Alma makes clear to Amulek that God is setting the stage for His vengeance in the blood of the innocent who will testify against their oppressors. It is not a calculus which I would ever come to on my own.

Vengeance is His alone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 24, 2010 11:58 PM                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Would you assume any gun, which was handed to you, to be unloaded?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally do not. However, I would assume that any responsible firearm owner would use an unloaded gun while teaching their children. I will have to let lemontree make the final answer to whether or not they use loaded firearms, as in reality I do not know for sure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:05 AM                   
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EDG said,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Just so you know, white hot hate aside, Mirk has put up with me for a couple of years. That probably says more about his character than it does mine. I read his blog, get his emails, and send him tips on ag issues when something comes up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea, well someone has to try and convert you from your evil ways and get you to buy a Glock. You know there is a Gen 4 model being released... 
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Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 25, 2010 12:07 AM                   
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Of course there is a Gen 4 model, they have to keep trying to get it right.
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:12 AM                   
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Josh said,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 its 9mm bulet bounces around the inside of the body to cause grevious wounds. The reason they are only designed to maim is because military techs found out it took more people to look after a wounded chap then to bury a dead one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will agree with the bolded part.

9mm was designed to kill. A 9mm round will kill just as easily as the .40, .357 and .45.


Oh dear...I may have just started the caliber war of words...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 12:14 AM                   
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Mirkwood,

LM has since clarified that the photograph is not of his children. It was taken from the web.

My point relative to the content of that image, is that the adults who staged the picture obviously did not have the sense to;

- Know that guns are not props for child's play.

- Instruct the kid's in responsible handling.

- By inference, placed loaded weapons in the hand's of the kid's (for all they knew).

- Set a pattern of gun safety which will result in tragedy.

I do not chalk it up to moral deficit, but ignorance. I do not believe anyone wants to cause the suffering, or death, of their children.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:16 AM                   
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EDG:


quote:
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 Of course there is a Gen 4 model, they have to keep trying to get it right.
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Heathen   
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Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 12:17 AM                   
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P.S.;

The 9mm parabellum originally had a frusto-conical nose. It was definitely designed to kill.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:19 AM                   
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noel, I'm not going to disagree with any of that, except this part:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - By inference, placed loaded weapons in the hand's of the kid's (for all they knew).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but are we just making an assumption that the guns are loaded, or is there something that tells us they are loaded and I missed that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
"Somebody should have set a match to this place long ago."
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Yay! The original Nauvoo Thread "The Big One" from 2010!
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2018, 06:33:01 pm »
EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 25, 2010 12:20 AM                   
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So mirk- I need to get something to kill pigeons that won't also tear up my really shabby barn which is made of galvanized steel and rust. Whadya like?
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 12:24 AM                   
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Mirk,

I would wager, a very large amount, that the guns were unloaded. The issue with gun safety is that "wagers" are not part of the protocol.

That the children were playing with these at all, tells me the adults had not covered the rudiments of gun handling which means, by inference, that the children had no idea of what they were holding.
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Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:26 AM                   
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Oh goodie, we get to quote the Journals of Discourse!


" As for this people fostering to themselves that the day has come for them to sell their guns and ammunition to their enemies, and sit down to sleep in peace, they will find themselves deceived and before they know, they will sleep until they are slain. They have got to carry weapons with them, to be ready to send their enemy to hell cross lots , whether they be Lamanites or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their property. We must be prepared that they dare not come to us in a hostile manner without being assured they will meet a vigorous resistance and ten to one they will meet their grave."

Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, Vol 1, P . 171 - 172, July 31, 1853

And since someone is going to scream I am taking this out of context, here is something a little more modern.


"Not only should we have strong spiritual homes, but we should have strong temporal homes. We should avoid bondage by getting out of debt as soon as we can, pay as we go, and live within our incomes. There is wisdom in having on hand a year's supply of food, clothing, fuel (if possible), and in being preparing to defend our families and our possessions and to take care of ourselves. I believe a man should prepare for the worst while working for the best."
Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 263-264.


I think I want to go back to Brother Brigham.

" We all believe that the Lord will fight our battles; but how? Will He do it while we are unconcerned and make no effort whatever for our own safety when an enemy is upon us? If we make no effort to guard our towns, our houses, our cities, our wives and children, will the Lord guard them for us? He will not; but if we pursue the opposite course and strive to help Him to accomplish His designs, then will He fight our battles. We are baptized for the remission of sins; but it would be quite as unreasonable to expect a remission of sins without baptism, as to expect the Lord to fight our battles without our taking every precaution to be prepared to defend ourselves. The Lord requires us to be quite as willing to fight our own battles as to have Him fight them for us. If we are not ready for an enemy when he comes upon us, we have not lived up to the requirements of Him who guides the ship of Zion, or who dictates the affairs of his kingdom."

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 131, August 1-10, 1865.


Then our first latter day prophet has this to say.

"There is one principle which is eternal; it is the duty of all men to protect their lives and the lives of the household, whenever necessity requires, and no power has the right to forbid it, should the last extreme arrive, but I anticipate no such extreme, but caution is the parent of safety."

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six, 1843-44, p. 391.
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:28 AM                   
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noel: Ok I get the point you are making.

[ January 25, 2010, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: mirkwood ]
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 25, 2010 12:29 AM                   
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quote:
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Oh goodie, we get to quote the Journals of Discourse!
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Will you stop if I quit making fun of your Glock?
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:30 AM                   
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quote:
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 So mirk- I need to get something to kill pigeons that won't also tear up my really shabby barn which is made of galvanized steel and rust. Whadya like?
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Cats? 


I suppose a .410 with birdshot will punch through? Maybe salt shot?
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 25, 2010 12:31 AM                   
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Wait- you have a flying cat? Because that is awesome. I hadn't thought of loading salt. I do want the pigeons dead since they are carrying the disease that killed so many calves this fall.
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:50 AM                   
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quote:
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 Will you stop if I quit making fun of your Glock?
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Probably not.
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Posts: 1164 | Registered: Oct 2005
 
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:52 AM                   
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If there is even the slightest way for a cat moitvated by bird flesh to get up there...it might work. As for flying cats, I don't know...maybe Oz has some hidden away with the monkeys you could buy?
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 12:54 AM                   
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roper said,

quote:
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 If you have ever been responsible for taking the life of another, even if it was justified (line of duty, war, etc.), or if you have directly witnessed it, you think a little bit differently about it.
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There is more truth to this statement then anything else in this thread. Thanks for posting it.
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scruffydog
Member #10650

  posted January 25, 2010 04:06 AM                   
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Scottish reads the three pages that have appeared over the weekend. Sits staring at the screen for a few moments. Then goes away quietly to leave them to it. Phew.
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 05:02 AM                   
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mirkwood
Member #1788

  posted January 25, 2010 07:40 AM                   
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Another thought on Zion and why it will be safe. This occurs before the Millenium. The point to reabout this occurence, is that prior to the return to build the New Jerusalem, the government of the USA must fall. This is where the dreadful violence occurs where we must flee to Zion if we would not take up arms against our neighbor.


We shall go back to Jackson County. Not all of this people will leave these mountains, or all be gathered together in a camp, but when we go back there will be a very large organization consisting of thousands, and tens of thousands, and they will march forward, the glory of God overshadowing thier camp by day in the form of a cloud, and a pillar of flaming fire by night, the Lord's voice being uttered forth before his army ...

Will this not produce terror upon all the nations of the earth? Will not armies of this description, though they may not be as numerous as the armies of the world, cause a terror to fall upon the nations? The Lord says the banners of Zion shall be terrible. If only one or two millions of this people were to go down and build the wast places of Zion, would it strike the people of Asia and Europe with terror? Not particularly, unless there was some supernatural power made manifest. But when the Lord's presence is there, when his voice is heard, and his angels go before the camp, it will be telegraphed to the uttermost parts of the earth and fear will seize upon all people, especially the wicked, and the knees of the ungodly will tremble in that day , and the high ones that are on high, and the great men of the earth.

Orson Pratt, JOD Vol. 15, pg. 364


If you really want to know about these topics I suggest you read Gerald Lund's The Coming Of The Lord. It talks quite a bit about Last Days events, both the horrible and the amazing spiritual experiences. One of my favorite chapters is on the building of the New Jerusalem. It is a worthwile read.
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Josh
Member #10770

  posted January 25, 2010 08:55 AM                   
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quote:
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9mm was designed to kill. A 9mm round will kill just as easily as the .40, .357 and .45.
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Frankly all guns kill. The original idea of smaller calibers was the result of combat encounters and after actions by the German army in ww2, as they discoverd that most combat encounters were ony 50 metres at maximum, therefore high caliber weapons only being useful for longer range specialists (ie snipers). So by lowering the caliber the rate of fire could be increased and in-turn the weight lowered. Later it was discovered that a 9mm more than likely resulted in a wound that required specialist care.

Overall who cares about the gun or how fantastic it is, if you dont know how to use it combating humans it may as well be as effective as a golf club. Also how many people here police their brass, and can reload? Amunition is cheap now but when the big one happens and people are hosing everything in sight its going to be pricless. Also dont think a little firefight is going to go unnoticed, its like beacon saying hey we have something worth fighting for.....

Frankly I am with EDG on this one I am liking what roper is selling, quite and unassuming.
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Yay! The original Nauvoo Thread "The Big One" from 2010!
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2018, 06:33:19 pm »
Pink Floyd
Member #275

  posted January 25, 2010 09:13 AM                   
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Oh goody. We get to quote the prophet Gerald N. Lund:
quote:
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The righteous as well as the unenlightened will experience these times of tribulation. LDS sources teach that the Lord will gather the righteous together in "holy places" (D&C 101:22), which include Zion and her stakes (D&C 115:6). These places are described in terms of "peace," "refuge," and "safety for the saints of the Most High God" (D&C 45:66). The promise is that God "will not suffer that the wicked shall destroy the righteous. Wherefore, he will preserve the righteous by his power…Wherefore, the righteous need not fear" (1 Ne. 22:16-17).
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Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.2, JESUS CHRIST-The Second Coming: Gerald N. Lund
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Valjean
Member #10773

  posted January 25, 2010 10:26 AM                   
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Gracie,

I didn't know they made galvanized rust. 

Josh,

Quite right. The idea behind the 9mm is that volume of fire is more important than "stopping power" of individual rounds. Also, wounding the enemy in conventional warfare is sometimes better than killing him, both for moral reasons and because it costs the enemy resources to evacuate him.

We're not talking about conventional warfare here, of course. "Stopping power" matters, and I'll put my trust in Moses. (John Moses Browning, that is.)

I do wonder where I'm supposed to find smokeless powder when civilization collapses. Kind of makes reloading skills seem pointless. On the other hand, the only firearms I actually happen to own are a black powder pistol and rifle (mementos of my youth) so there are no cartridges to reload, and all I need to make black powder are charcoal, saltpeter and sulfur. These are somewhat easier to come by under primitive conditions than nitrocellulose, nitroguanadine and nitroglycerin. Plus any guanadine I run across is going to be used as a metformin substitute rather than as base for smokeless powder. Hmm, perhaps I should include some French lilac seed in my emergency storage ...

Pink,

The bottom line for me is what you just said. I will not survive long on my own in an apocalyptic scenario regardless of any reasonable preparations I can make. I have stores of food and water, out of obedience to the Prophet, but my real emergency preparation is paying tithing and doing everything else that qualifies me for a temple recommend.

Only thing I've ever done with my food storage is dig some of it out and give it to the local Red Cross when there was a disaster in a nearby community and calls went out for donations of food supplies. (I gave them the powdered milk and oatmeal, not the wheat. It had to be easily prepared.) I figure that's as good a use for it, and as good a reason to obey the Prophet's call to have it on hand, as any.
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LoudmouthMormon
Member #6140

  posted January 25, 2010 11:11 AM                   
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I see both benchmarks of a good gun thread have been reached. The snowball fight of quotes back and forth - I'm surprised it took until page 5. The "I'm from the UK and you all are nuts" benchmark usually appears around now. Kudos to Scruffy for staying above the fray.

(Mirk might say that a caliber war and a Glock vs. brand X fight are also benchmarks, but I've seen good gun threads that never get around to them.)

Anyway, nobody seems to have posted my favorite snowball quote. It's a snowball with a rock in it, because it actually involves a prophet of the Lord using a cuss word.


quote:
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"Peace be still, bury the hatchet and the sword, the sound of war is dreadful in my ear. [But] Any man who will not fight for his wife and children is a coward and a bastard."
-- Joseph Smith Jr., journal entry, January 29, 1843. Source: "An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith," edited by Scott H. Faulring, Signature Books, Inc. in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, Utah,1989, p. 298
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Gracie's snow fort is safe, because you can't find it on LDS.org. Pink's fort is safe because it includes name calling. Others will only be partially safe when claiming you can fight without using a firearm, because it's hard to gloss over the fact that Joseph just finished mentioning hatchets and swords and war.

The UK/Canada contingent usually is what gets a thread locked, because of topic drift. So unless someone from across the pond wishes to take the gloves off and jump in the mud, this could go on for a while.

LM
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Posts: 530 | Registered: Aug 2007
 
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Twigg
Member #10972

  posted January 25, 2010 11:12 AM                   
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PF,

Your whole quote from George Q. Cannon, could use some context.

This was addressed to saints who have had family members killed by those opposed to church. They needed a talking to about revenge and the evils of it.

The part of that quote I found interesting is when he said they did not have sufficient numbers to fight their enemies.

That is very true from a tactical standpoint that the members could not take on the US Army.

But that again would only be according to the Lords will, or we would have to denounce the timeless stories of David and the Goliath or the city of Jericho. Faith in the Lord, and the Lord himself took part in both of these historic battles.
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Posts: 127 | Registered: Apr 2009
 
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Jen
Member #926

  posted January 25, 2010 11:15 AM                   
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quote:
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“It is important to understand that self-reliance is a means to an end. Our ultimate goal is to become like the Savior, and that goal is enhanced by our unselfish service to others. Our ability to serve is increased or diminished by the level of our self-reliance.”2

Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
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Posts: 3292 | Registered: Jul 2004
 
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 25, 2010 11:18 AM                   
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quote:
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 Mirk might say that a caliber war and a Glock vs. brand X fight are also benchmarks, but I've seen good gun threads that never get around to them.
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This is Nauvoo. We alway get around to that.
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 11:23 AM                   
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Hello Valjean,

I always appreciate your comments. It is not widely publicized outside of the industry, but firearms of all types, and reloading components, have been flying off of the racks since the last presidential election. The fear was legislation restricting sales, and distribution. Try to buy an M-4.

As a result, there is more than enough to "share" in an emergency. You will, very likely, be protected in the event of civil collapse even without the means to do it yourself. I would not depend on seperating out the triple base propellant components however, there is not much of that in the public consumer market.
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Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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Valjean
Member #10773

  posted January 25, 2010 11:29 AM                   
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quote:
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Try to buy an M-4.
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In my dreams: M4 Sherman

Meanwhile, if y'all are serious about self-defense, this ought to be of interest. I'm half-tempted to get it myself and for Petit Gavroche.
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Posts: 1892 | Registered: Dec 2008
 
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noel
Member #1306

  posted January 25, 2010 11:40 AM                   
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... Now there is a reloader's nightmare. 
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Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2005
 
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EDGJanitor
Administrator
Member #1615

  posted January 25, 2010 11:53 AM                   
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We have a tank near us. Every now and then we start idly wondering how hard it would be to hot wire.
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Posts: 6245 | Registered: Jun 2005
 
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Pink Floyd
Member #275

  posted January 25, 2010 12:05 PM                   
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You're not the only one.
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Posts: 9570 | Registered: Nov 2000
 
"Somebody should have set a match to this place long ago."
 

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Re: Yay! The original Nauvoo Thread "The Big One" from 2010!
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2018, 12:13:33 am »
So many Nauvoodles I miss...
 
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