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Author Topic: Scenario Input  (Read 329 times)


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Re: Scenario Input
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2018, 03:29:14 pm »
How in creation can a man give back the woman's or in this case child's virtue [virginity]?? Those young men took that from her, and there is no correcting it. Amending it. Making it Not So.

They absolutely took a lot from her, but it isn't her purity --- no one can take that from her, she has to surrender it based on full, healthy, choice that is simply not possible at age 13, no matter what age her culture things is appropriate for marriage.  She is no less a virgin after a rape than before (except in the strictly technical sense).    When we argue that she is less than because her virginity was taken, we assert blame where no blame exists.  I wish we'd all stop doing that: it is hard enough to recover and be healed from rape without having to hear people's judgements expressed in such statements.
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
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Re: Scenario Input
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2018, 07:20:03 pm »
in the case of rape/ statutory rape there is NEVER any amends. How in creation can a man give back the woman's or in this case child's virtue [virginity]?? Those young men took that from her, and there is no correcting it. Amending it. Making it Not So.

I believe Elizabeth Smart would take issue with your opinion.  Have you read her book or watched her documentary?  I recommend you do so.
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Re: Scenario Input
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2018, 01:28:43 am »
While our daughter is a victim of two predatory males, she knows she made an incorrect decision from hook to being pulled in.  The position she made the poor decision from is one without a full grasp of what was being done to her.  As we spoke to her she finally fully realized these guys had no feelings for her from the beginning and merely intended to have their way with her and discard her.  Frankly, I'm still piecing my thoughts on this and I know she is as well.

I have to say I am glad I do not live there, in case any of my children would choose to have sex underage regardless of what they have been taught. I have been always well mannered, well taught, loving the gospel, very modest, no need for therapy, good self-esteem and deemed as mature in thinking and yet having sex by my choice at 13, because I was a teenager, could have been a possibility. So I believe it could be a possibility for my children as well. So I am glad I live here and not there.

I have a hard time with thinking a 13 year old knows enough about life and consequences to engage in sexual intercourse responsibly.  Not only is their development not there but I would hope they don't have the experiences in love and life to choose that course.  The reality of puberty and all its change and confusion just confounds the issue even more.  To have kids engaging in sex at 13 and thinking little of it is a big concern of mine.  To have older kids involved with younger kids for the sheer pleasure of it and not thinking it an issue is even a bigger concern.  At this age, the difference between a 16-17 year-old and a 13 year-old is more significant than the few years tell.  I cannot say I would like to be somewhere where this activity is not a concern.

Still TheOne and only me who happens to now be curlybat.

Nauvoodle since September 2001 (#431)
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Re: Scenario Input
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2018, 11:22:57 am »
I never said it is not a concern. I said it is not a crime. I'm not saying it's not a big deal. I'm saying it feels it may become too big of a deal if it is criminalized it may seem to be over there.


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Re: Scenario Input
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2018, 06:29:23 pm »
A woman on the subway is not partially responsible for being groped just because she wore a tight sweater that day.

A college woman at a party is not partially responsible for being gang raped just because she had too much to drink.

A thirteen-year-old girl is not partially responsible for being sexually violated just because she didn't say No and try to run away.

I hope to heaven that we, as individuals and as a society, get past the disgusting idea that women and girls who are sexually violated are somehow responsible.

Edit: if anyone is still interested at this point, here is an explanation of what is considered rape and what is required to give consent: https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition-rape
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 07:21:38 pm by Roper »
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Re: Scenario Input
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2018, 09:31:44 pm »
I think this video is great to illustrate the absurdity of the lines of thought some tend to take with victims of sexual assault:



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Re: Scenario Input
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2018, 11:40:55 pm »
Roper, I believe we are at an impasse when it comes to how we define this.
You say that a 13 year old is incapable of making her own choices (perhaps because the law says so when it comes to sex), so is 100% incapable of being any bit accountable.

If she had merely been vulnerable/a temptation (the clothing choice or drinking choices you used as examples) and was assaulted, I would 100% agree. 

However, she wasn't.  She wasn't just vulnerable or a temptation, she made choices.  I believe if she were a psychologically healthy adult, then as such she would be up to 50% accountable for the situation, depending on the level of manipulation used by the boys.  As it is, with her pre-adoption background and her age, I put her at much less accountable, but still somewhat responsible for her conscious, sober choice.  To say otherwise is to eliminate her agency and power in her life, make it harder for her to heal, and make a mockery of God setting the age of accountability at 8.  I don't believe it is a black/white all/nothing thing, but I feel that she has SOME accountability for her CONSCIOUS CHOICES. 

Is it possible I'm off base?  Of course.  I didn't experience sexual abuse or assault in my life, but I did experience a different type of neglect/abuse for which this is a trigger.  My first brush with suicide happened when I was a teen, after negative consequences of a car accident I had caused were taken away.  It told me that what I did, good or bad, was irrelevant, that I had no power or influence.  I NEEDED some natural, negative consequences.  Would a fatality or serious injury or having to pay all the car repair expenses out of my own pocket, at 16, have been too much?  Heck yes.  It was an accident, and I was a young, inexperienced driver.  But acting like I had done nothing wrong brought me closer to suicide than I had ever before been and wasn't again for many years.  It would be decades and years of therapy before I realized what the problem was that day, and before I was able to deal with hard things in my life, as my parents always tried to spare me from consequences.  And that wasn't even with CONSCIOUS choices to mess up. 

The boys in curlybat's scenario were not good.  They had evil designs, they saw an easy mark and they took it.  But to completely negate her choice in the matter is to take away her power.  And that's not good either.


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