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Jana at Jade House

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Moses 1:6
« on: January 04, 2018, 12:06:26 pm »
The more I know the more I do not know.   
For over 4 decades I read Moses was created in the similitude of Jesus. I took that as meaning that Moses was a ( oh whats the word fore runner symbolic of Christ establishing a pattern of e.g.suffering leader)  To my amazement, in the manual for OT lesson 1 there it is in black and white...Moses was created in similitude AND SO ARE WE.   
How in the world did I miss that nugget?  What does that really mean?  Arms, legs feet? potential for the divine? all of the above?  For some reason those words were written in neon this time round.

You can bet we will just cruise over that in local class... so my siblings in Christ, how does literally created like Jesus change our view of our mortal callings and future progress? 
 
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dyany

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 12:25:57 pm »
For me, it doesn't change a thing.  We've always been taught we've been created in God's image.  I've been taught and now have a testimony of the fact that we are gods and goddesses in embryo.
As a female, this has the potential of being disheartening or disenfranchising (i.e., I am female with obviously different physical traits from a male God, so how can this apply to me?), but for me it isn't, because it forces me to see this in a broader less exact way.  So, just like a person born without arms, legs, feet, hands, or even a brain, or with other severe congenital deformities, is still in the image of God, we need to look at this in a different way. 

Christ had to be born of a MORTAL woman.  Half God, with the power to overcome death and the flaws of his physical body, but half mortal (mortal, to me, being flawed physical state.  As in, the tiny genetic mutations and weaknesses present in almost everything on the earth) so that he could experience the temptations and suffering inherent in the flaws.  We are similar, in that we are also subject to the flaws of our flesh, but we are also similar in that we have seeds of divinity within us.  In Christ, those seeds were already to full fruition, and the fact that his PHYSICAL father was God gave him more power.  But we, too, have power to choose and to overcome the temptations of the flesh (though to a lesser degree for now).  It is part of the path of Becoming. 
 

Jana at Jade House

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 12:40:51 pm »
I know we are children of HF.  I understand that part.  Part of my amazement was that I had the notion that Jesus was also a child of God but way Other by merit of his paternity. What I realized today is how SAME as we he is (Similitude) not just hands and feet but potential ....He just had more available mojo because of HF. 
Its hard to write what my aha was.  Am I clear as mud?
 
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dyany

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 12:50:26 pm »
I think I'm understanding you, I'm just saying it's something I already had had to learn. 
 

Roper

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 07:49:40 pm »
There seems to be two ways "similitude" is used in scripture, and either (or both) could apply in this case.

Similitude can mean the quality of being similar, especially when used to compare people.  For example, James 3:9 states that men have been made in the similitude of God.  Other translations use the words "like," "likeness," "to be like," "image," and "in the image of." Some of the references associated with Moses 1:6 lead to the topical guide entry "God, body of, corporeal nature."

Similitude can also mean a direct comparison between two things or ideas.  For example, Jacob 4:5 teaches that Abraham's intended sacrifice of Isaac is a similitude of God's sacrifice of His only begotten Son. The similitude is in the principle of sacrifice.  D&C 128:13 teaches that the baptismal font is a similitude of the grave.

Jana, my interpretation of Moses 1:6 is similar to your original one.   In the context, God was teaching Moses about the role of His Only Begotten as Savior. Moses had the mission of savior for captive Israel.  The similitude was about the role and mission.  I think the author of OT lesson 1 was working from the other aspect of the definition--body of a corporeal nature.  Although, there is that whole "Saviors on mount Zion" similitude about temple work... ;)
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 07:59:09 pm »
exactly...I think I am a baby step closer to understanding just how THE SAME we are to our Brother.
 
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Roper

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 10:16:51 pm »
Many years ago, I wrote a paper about community and control.  In the research for that paper, I studied the effect of "otherization." Soldiers are trained to otherize the enemy to increase the probability of successful attacks.  Men who commit violent acts against women almost always go through a mental otherization process, to the point that some rapists don't even consider their victims as members of the same species. Good Christians used the same rationalizations for slavery.

With few exceptions, the similarity we feel toward someone directly correlates to how we treat that person.  I believe that same correlation exists in our relationship with Christ.  The closer we draw to Him, the more we strive to be like Him, the less likely we are to go against Him.  It also gives added meaning to His counsel to "be one," and what it will take to establish Zion.
 
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Roper

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 10:50:09 pm »
Jana, thank you so much for starting this discussion.  I made another connection as I was thinking about all of this.

"By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families."  Christ presides over the whole human family. He provides the necessities of eternal life through His atonement. He provides protection through the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

"By divine design ... Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children."  Christ is the greatest exemplar of what it means to nurture.  Verse 2 of "I Know that my Redeemer Lives" comes to mind:

He lives to grant me rich supply.
He lives to guide me with his eye.
He lives to comfort me when faint.
He lives to hear my soulís complaint.
He lives to silence all my fears.
He lives to wipe away my tears.
He lives to calm my troubled heart.
He lives all blessings to impart.

"In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners." And we come to D&C 38:27 again: "...and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine."

In other words:  By divine design, fathers and mothers, you are in the similitude of Christ.

"Similitude" seems to mean so much more than I had considered before.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 11:02:58 pm by Roper »
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 04:59:19 am »
I knew there was a reason to post!  By the way this is the way the "new" teaching method is supposed to work. Encouraging us to think for ourselves, make connections, not waiting for a teacher to zip open our skulls and fill em up.  Strengthening our own testimonies to stand against whatever this sea change in the world will cast our way.  All it takes is one good question, and people ready to listen and share.

I sure hope my ward gets on board.
 
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Enochscion

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 11:02:04 pm »
As a female, this has the potential of being disheartening or disenfranchising.

I believe that an appreciation of Heavenly Mothersís divinity is an answer to that. We are really reluctant in our Protestant-informed(1) traditions to think of the term ďGodĒ as being inclusive of our Heavenly Mother. Iím pretty sure the exalted members of our family arenít.

Quote
In Christ, those seeds were already to full fruition, and the fact that his PHYSICAL father was God gave him more power.

I donít think Christís status as physical son of an exalted Father was a big deal(2). I mean, what would it really mean beyond some excellent genes? The scriptures sure donít say there was anything special he got out of it. We *assume* he got the ability to not die until he chose from it (without scriptural evidence). We mistakenly assume he got phenomenal cosmic powers out it. Why would he? His powers came from the priesthood, and by being full of and having power over the Light of Christ. None of that has anything to do with a physical body, and he had all that before he was born.

More likely his sonship, referenced in the scriptures is intended to refer to his spiritual birth to exaltation received from His Father before the world was, the same way we will be exalted through Him. He is both the firstborn and only begotten In the sense of having been exalted through his Father.

(1) Weird term, but inasmuch as we have incorrect traditions inherited from members of other religious groups, are we not informed by those groups in the same way incorrect ancient Israelite traditions were often informed by their pagan neighbors?

(2) Iím not assuming that you meant to say it was. It just provided me with an opportunity to express something Iíve thought about a lot.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Moses 1:6
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2018, 08:36:19 am »
Enoch,

Yes.

Especially since the earliest NT writings (Paul and Mark) were very happy with the idea that God chose/adopted/anointed the mortal Jesus as His Son/King because of his righteousness. Their idea of Jesus as Son of God didn't need to involve him being a Demigod for them. Jesus' Baptism was when he became and was declared the Son of God, and God Resurrected Jesus because of his Righteousness: Jesus didn't Resurrect Himself.

Jesus was always the template to reveal our relationship to God. He was revealed as the Son of the Father to show that we all can choose to affirm our relationship as Children of the Father. He was Resurrected to give physicality to the hope that All will be Resurrected. He lives his life in service amidst defamation and insult and to show the nature and character of His Father Serving for us.

I really think the point all the NT writers wanted us to get was not HOW Jesus was God's Son, but that he WAS. Paul and Mark worshipped and taught they followed the Adopted and Anointed Son of God chosen because of his righteousness. Matthew and Luke worshipped and taught Jesus as a Literal Demigod (not an uncommon idea). John worshipped Jesus as an embodied Eternal Co-Existent Divine Spoken Word of God. 

I don't think it essentially matters which view is right (or even if you can fully combine all three), and I definitely thing the last thing Jesus would want is for people to get into angry heated arguments over it.

Christ wants us to look at him and see our potential, and have Hope - not something that is a standard that is impossible because We Don't Have An Exalted Chromosome (It's actually a key reason why many Catholics turn to Mary as their mediator. She's understood as fully human chosen for her righteousness, much more relatable!)

The most special thing about Jesus for me doesn't at all involve his potential genetic makeup. It was his character, and his love, and his willingness to give it all to free others from the oppression which bound them, and curtailed their Hope. He had further confidence because he knew God had accepted him as his Child. This is what inspires me. This is what draws me to his message, and to the Father.

I honestly couldn't care less where his y chromosome came from. I can bear firm and burning testimony that Jesus is the unique Son of God, Savior and Redeemer, and one who I seek (and can have Hope to emulate) without bearing testimony about the source of his chromosomes. Just like most of the NT writers.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 09:04:21 am by Taalcon »
 
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