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Author Topic: Current Events - US Politics Edition  (Read 53170 times)

Jason

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #960 on: March 19, 2020, 02:40:40 am »
That speaks as if everything was clear and compelling 6 weeks ago. 6 weeks ago was February 5th, and we still did not have the results of the Iowa caucus. This thread was debating the merits of Romney voting to impeach. Trump's China travel ban had already been in place for 6 or more days, but at the time was attacked by Joe Biden as a hysterical and xenophobic response. But it did help slow the spread.

On the day after the Iowa caucuses what would have been the reaction if Trump had announced cancelling schools and universities, all sporting events, closing all restaurants and entertainment venues, all elective surgeries, churches, and promoting social isolation? That was not the clear answer at the time. 

There is no one right and perfect way forward that is absolutely clear and compelling. Our local mega hospital system in the heart of the US outbreak is still making changes day by day. They have made many mistakes and will continue to do so. Update emails come out once or twice a day.

Possible pandemics as reported in the news are somewhat like the boy who cried wolf. Most of the time there ends up being no real wolf. But eventually the wolf comes. That the Trump administration recognized an actual potential wolf and began taking steps back at the end of January is a good thing. But at the time the severity and size of the wolf was still evolving, as it continues to do today.
 
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Curelom

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #961 on: March 19, 2020, 04:37:51 am »
I find it a good sign that they were willing to change in order to minimize deaths, despite knowing that this will prolong the duration of pandemic here, as well as worsen its economic impact on the country's finances and industry. If nothing else, I think President Trump knows well that if the economy is humming along he will be re-elected, and if it is not, then he will not get re-elected, yet he is making a choice that is going to prolong the financial pain, with a recovery possibly not happening until after the election.

We are not looking at “Profiles in Courage” here, at someone making an unpopular but heroic decision based on what’s best for America despite the cost to his political future. We are looking at someone who finds himself backed into a corner, not of anyone else’s making but one he painted himself into, & desperate to wiggle out of it. This is not about partisanship. We’ve had good & bad presidents of both parties, & I believe that given this specific situation, any of them, Republican or Democrat, would have done the right thing & put America first. On the contrary, Trump came to the White House with no government, military, diplomatic, law, health, religious, non-profit or any other service experience – by which I mean he has never truly served anyone outside of his own interests. He is not accustomed to doing what’s best for anyone else, & the cost of his lifelong self-absorption is now a cost to our country.

There really was no other choice. If he had doubled down on his, "Everything will be fine. This isn't as bad as the common flu" rhetoric against the mountain of scientific research and medical advice which shows just the opposite, he would have lost whatever credibility he had left, even with his base. That's not Monday morning quarterbacking, that's been the reality for six weeks. Trump is not a hero for finally accepting reality even though it will mean financial pain. That's political expediency, nothing more.

Exactly. The excuse-making for Trump needs to stop. He is a victim of his own incompetence. He got into that corner through his own bungling, arrogance, & refusal to heed people who actually know what they are doing. Now that there is no more room for temporizing, & it’s obvious to everyone that our country is in serious trouble, he is finally, reluctantly conceding to the expertise of those people he should have heeded for weeks. The total of (reported) U.S. cases will probably reach 10,000 today, & at least 155 have died. How many of those people might have been saved or spared their illness if we’d had a president who put less value on his own pride & stubbornness & more on what was best for America?
 
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Curelom

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TurkeyLurker

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #963 on: March 21, 2020, 10:42:38 am »
...
COULD THEY HAVE BEEN SAVED?

Hmmm, an "anonymous source" is "quoting" classified documents in the media?  Sounds legit.  I'm sure their desire to stab the president won't overcome their oath to not share classified information.  And I'm absolutely sure their "quotes" are 100% accurate and in context.

It's just like those totally legit "an apostle said this in a stake conference my 3rd Cousin thrice removed's friend from Africa attended once" stories.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 10:44:14 am by TurkeyLurker »
 

Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #964 on: March 21, 2020, 11:03:31 am »
I think it's interesting that two weeks ago, Mitt Romney floated the idea of giving every taxpayer $1000 to help them get through the worst of this. He was labeled a socialist by members of his own party and by conservative media. The alt-right turned rabid. Now, Republicans are trying to get trillion dollar "stimulus package" through congress which does, among other things, exactly what Romney proposed. Once again, thank you Mitt, for placing people above politics.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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pnr

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #965 on: March 21, 2020, 01:59:18 pm »
Quote from: Curelom link=topic=545.msg15957#msg15957 date=1584765867
COULD THEY HAVE BEEN SAVED?
[/quote

I laughed when I read that headline.   The news started trickling out info in January and February.  Yet people laughed at Trump for shutting down access from China on Jan 31st.   Even today there are people having trouble forgoing their pay and sitting around with their family when they don't have paid leave or even if they do when America doesn't have as many old people living close together as other countries that have been hit hard have.   

NO ONE avoided disclosing risks, and certainly not the government.    Anyone who was reading newspapers in Jan and February didn't need a classified briefing to know that the risk of a pandemic was high ---- some of us lived through SARS, a virus that they first thought might be replicated.
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
 

Curelom

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #966 on: March 30, 2020, 04:53:51 am »
In 7 hours, 98 people died in New York City, & hospitals are overwhelmed. New York State is hovering around 40% of the U.S. cases & the U.S. deaths. FEMA is sending an Omaha Beach-type response of supplies & a Navy hospital ship is on the way. Many people are sick or dying, mourning, worried, & fearful, not only of the disease but its impact on their ability to support their families. A million Californians filed unemployment last week – over half the members of one ward near me, & 3,000,000 in the U.S. over the last couple of weeks.

And here is the sympathy these worried & frightened people got from the president of the United States. Just what they need to make them feel better.

Quote
I’ve been watching that for the last week on television. Body bags all over, in hallways. I’ve been watching them bring in trailer trucks — freezer trucks, they’re freezer trucks, because they can’t handle the bodies, there are so many of them. This is essentially in my community, in Queens, Queens, New York.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/29/trump-coronavirus-fighting-supplies-have-landed-at-jfk/

If any other president (including the corrupt or inept ones) ever said such an insensitive thing while hundreds of Americans were dying, I would be shocked. It's sad that when Trump says it, it isn't at all shocking, just pitiful. I feel sorry for someone who so clearly lacks any kind of empathy or compassion.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 10:35:58 am by Curelom »
 

JLM

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #967 on: March 30, 2020, 10:57:12 am »
Uh, the man is a narcissistic sociopath.  He is literally unable to empathize with other people's feelings.
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #968 on: April 01, 2020, 09:40:27 pm »
Holocaust deniers, flat earthers, and now COVID deniers. <Sigh> It just baffles me that people can stare at indisputable facts and insist that they're not real. This time, there are deadly consequences. These idiots don't follow directives and put everyone else at risk. We need a new Marvel Superhero: COVID Man! He has Viral Vision which enables him to identify people who are carriers. When they're out in public, infecting everyone else, he picks them up and isolates them.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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TurkeyLurker

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #969 on: April 01, 2020, 09:53:14 pm »
Quote
If any other president (including the corrupt or inept ones) ever said such an insensitive thing while hundreds of Americans were dying, I would be shocked. It's sad that when Trump says it, it isn't at all shocking, just pitiful. I feel sorry for someone who so clearly lacks any kind of empathy or compassion.

I was watching that press conference.  I really felt compassion and empathy in his voice when he said it.  I guess we just read the man differently. 
 

Curelom

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #970 on: April 03, 2020, 07:20:32 am »
I was watching that press conference.  I really felt compassion and empathy in his voice when he said it.  I guess we just read the man differently.

If that’s so, then an awful lot of people are misreading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/america-needs-empathetic-leadership-now-more-than-ever/2020/04/02/1f6935f2-750c-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

I didn’t pick that one quotation about all the body bags out of context. But even out of context, how can anyone read it & not be appalled at the insensitivity? Thousands of people are dying around the world & in our country every day. Paramedics in New York, the poster city for vibrant, resilient, modern America, are being told that if they go on a call & the patient's pulse cannot be restored, they are not to transport but just pronounce them dead, because the hospitals are too overwhelmed. Mortuaries are taking bodies two or three at a time from hospital loading docks to hearses using forklifts. This is an American city in agony, & the person we are supposed to look to for national leadership can only marvel at all the body bags & how they can’t handle them & have to put them in freezer trucks. At the worst, it shows a cruel, harsh nature. At best, given the benefit of the doubt. it shows a simple, basic lack of ability to identify with other humans.

Anyone can be excused for a misstep here & there, but the entirety of his actions, words, & perceived attitudes toward people denies him the right to the benefit of the doubt, He continually says & does things that indicate no capacity for sympathy or compassion, no ability to understand or relate to other people or their situations, & the ability & willingness to appreciate only what benefits him or what threatens him.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 07:25:53 am by Curelom »
 
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pnr

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #971 on: April 03, 2020, 07:54:57 pm »
Anyone can be excused for a misstep here & there, but the entirety of his actions, words, & perceived attitudes toward people denies him the right to the benefit of the doubt.

And who gets to be arbiter of that?   Aren't you admitting confirmation bias?
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
 
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Curelom

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #972 on: April 09, 2020, 05:20:23 am »
Indeed not. As I said, anyone is entitled a couple of missteps, because we are all human. We all make mistakes. Good, decent, ethical people acknowledge their mistakes & try to avoid making them again. Other kinds of people deliberately repeat what they did, making it clear those weren't mistakes, & pile on & compound the things they already did. Benefit of the doubt is not an infinite commodity, & some people seem determined to wear it out.

There is no need for an arbiter in the situation we're talking about. Empirical evidence stands on its own.
 
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Jason

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #973 on: April 09, 2020, 11:12:34 am »
Many people are mourning the drop out of Bernie Sanders. They agree with his brand of complaints and solutions against the establishment powers. I feel differently. I am glad that Bernie Sanders has dropped out. I strongly feel that his brand of socialism would lead us toward Khmer Rouge style takeover of the government, as seen in Cambodia in the 1970s that led to mass violence, death, genocide, and suppression of nearly all freedoms. There are too many similarities between the rhetoric and actions of him and his followers to the book "To Destroy You Is No Loss", which chronicles the horrors experienced by a family and their community in Cambodia during the 1970s.

None of this is to be construed as acceptance of the problems with the various establishment parties or party factions. I just think that his version of solutions would be devastating and deadly. Maybe others feel that he would not be that extreme. Perhaps there are enough checks and balances in our system to prevent that. But I feel that every generation has its own battle to fight to define and maintain its freedoms. We cannot think that we are somehow special, that something like that could never happen here. Human nature is repetitive.
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #974 on: April 09, 2020, 02:39:29 pm »
I'm not a Bernie Sanders supporter. That said, Bernie is no more Khmer Rouge than his European contemporaries who are serving in public office in socially liberal and economically successful countries.

I think Bernie kinda sank his own ship by wearing the badge of "socialism." His Nordic Model examples are not "socialism."  Finland, Sweden, Denmark, and Norway all have economies based on free-market capitalism. The people just pay higher taxes to support more universal public programs.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 02:41:31 pm by Roper »
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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