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Author Topic: Current Events - US Politics Edition  (Read 22528 times)

Palmon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #525 on: August 15, 2019, 11:16:07 pm »
During the narcotics raid in Philidelphia, spectators were laughing, mocking, pushing and throwing objects at the police. I'd like to say it's some politician's fault for saying blah blah blah.  But it isn't. It is the fault of the people acting out.

[url]https://www.foxnews.com/us/crowd-of-onlookers-taunt-police-during-philadelphia-standoff-reports/url]
 
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Jason

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #526 on: August 15, 2019, 11:54:36 pm »
This is from the transcript of the Trump's press conference, which was not with teleprompters. I am not being inaccurate when I say that he excluded the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists. He did not double down on praising the neo-Nazis and white nationalists at this press conference. He did not call the neo-Nazis and white nationalists 'fine people', yet that is what is said by the Democrat's presidential candidates.
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and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists because they should be condemned, totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, OK? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
In this press conference he differentiated between people that were there to quietly protest the removal of a historic statue and those very bad people that were there to be violent. And while not all of the counter-protesters were violent, Antifa was among them. I consider Antifa to be a domestic terror group. Antifa is not composed of good people. These are people that seek to enforce their political beliefs through violence and terror, believing that the ends justify the means. They came to fight. They came to revel in violence. They came to make a media circus. Antifa absolutely bears an amount of blame for the violence.

The Dayton shooter might not have been a traditional manifesto, but here is what CNN reported,
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In the hours before the Dayton shooting, the Twitter account "liked" several tweets about a shooting in El Paso that left 22 dead, including one supporting gun control and others that called the El Paso shooting suspect a "terrorist," and a "white supremacist."
The account retweeted messages supporting Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, as well as posts against ICE agents, including one that said, "these people are monsters," and multiple posts condemning police, and supporting Antifa protesters, who often use violent tactics.
There were also many tweets of selfies, photos with a friend and ordinary memes and nonpolitical content.
The account was suspended by Twitter on Sunday evening. A Twitter spokesperson would not comment on the account, only saying in a statement, "We're proactively removing content that violates our policies and will be engaged with law enforcement, as appropriate."
He is also the one who had a rape and kill list. Keeping an enemies list is not typically a sign of a stable mind (Joaquin and Julian Castro...).
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #527 on: August 16, 2019, 01:05:11 am »
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The Dayton shooter might not have been a traditional manifesto, but here is what CNN reported,

So, specifically NOT that he had any manifesto (a document designed to clearly explain beliefs and motives) that quoted political leaders or named them or called them out as support and justification for his attack (which was on civilian attendees at an event, and targeted on ICE or Police Officers), as you claimed. Okay. Just wanted to make sure we were clear.

Because your whole topic was false narratives.

Quote
This is from the transcript of the Trump's press conference, which was not with teleprompters.

The initial press conference, which the later press conference you quoted was a RESPONSE to, was absolutely with a teleprompter, and has this: ""But we're closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Va.. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. "

The bolded part was not on the prepared remarks written for him. It was ad libbed by Trump in the moment, suggesting there was equal "hatred, bigotry and violence" on what he sets up as "Both sides".

The night before the murder, the "peaceful protests" were by a literal Neo Nazi group. They organized the event. The people chanting "you will not replace us. Blood and Soil" These were who organized it. They were leading the chants.  It was a literal White Supremacy rally. If you were a part of that protest movement, you were literally identifying with them. You were joining THEIR event.

Video from the event.

A counter-protester was murdered. By a White Supremacist. Who was there for the White Supremacist rally.

So for Trump to get up and suggest that maybe theoretically there were good people among that group in the press conference you quoted was was absolutely disengenuous.

If you show up to someone's party and do what the hosts are doing, you're part of the party.

And of course anyone who proactively went after someone violently was in the wrong (you know, like the white supremacist who ran over people).

This was a time when there was a clear long-seeded moral ill on display, of a group of people chanting and advocating for the loss of rights of those who are not white, who were advocates of slavery, who were using the emblems of Lynch Mobs, that ended in Murder.

For ANYONE to not just directly come against that, but set up the counter-protesters as on equal ground? Come on, Jason.

Trump has also made clear he has no idea what White Nationalism IS. In fact, the use of the term bothered him so much, he declared HIMSELF a Nationalist, and urged others to do so as well, to specifically use that phrase.

Trump regularly says he condemns or disavows something, and then immediately justifies that such a thing or those doing such things as good, actually. It makes him say the words he's supposed to say so they can be quoted by his supporters (hi), while the absolutely rest of everything else he says and does show what he meant by it.  It's gas-lighting to the extreme.

It goes something like this:

* [[White Nationalism is Bad, whatever.]]
* [[Most People At The White Nationalism Party Were not part of the Bad People, they were Good People]]
* [[Nationalism is a good thing, and those good people, who are definitely not bad, should all all call ourselves Nationalists.]]
* [[No, those people saying they are Nationalists are the Good Kind. My Kind.]]

When you deny that acts of racism are actually racism, then nobody can be called a racist.

When you think that Nationalism is good, and White Nationalism isn't really a thing, when you condemn White Nationalism it's empty, and when you call yourself a Nationalist, you are seen as promoting the ideology by those who also call themselves by that name.

A lot of the most prominent White Supremacists were quite vocal around Twitter at that time. It was clear that none of them felt condemned by Trump, and many felt emboldened. First a VERY long delay in saying anything (which Trump attributed to wanting to know all the facts before saying anything - COME ONE. NOBODY who knows Trump thinks he every actually looks for full details before commenting, and placing blame.). He knew it was a White Supremacist rally. He knew the White Supremacist killed someone.

He also knew very well many of the White Supremacists vote for him. And if anything, he needed to wait to see if he could find something to shift some of the blame off of them, and to soften the blow, and not make it unilateral against his supporters.

Come on, Jason.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 01:12:50 am by Taalcon »
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #528 on: August 16, 2019, 01:08:17 am »
Not just random lefties, but two sitting senators.  Both of them Democratic candidates for president.  Now that I look at the actual, live tweets, I'm almost physically ill.

Yeah, if the situation and facts are as I currently understand them, those are, at best, very irresponsible.
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #529 on: August 16, 2019, 01:33:54 am »
Bragging about grabbing women's genitals because they let you, doesn't really compare to anti-cop lies in my book...
They're both disgusting and should be condemned, in my book. Bragging about sexual assault doesn't get a pass because of what someone else said.
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #530 on: August 16, 2019, 08:35:05 am »
Lemme just, as a right wing white guy, say something transparent and unambiguous:

I denounce white nationalism or white racism of any sort.  Those people don't represent me.  I don't care what you believe about the role of government or the dangers of taxation or whatever, once you cross the line into demonizing or elevating a group because of race or ethnicity, you are not one of me.

There.  I did it without saying anything about what the other side does.  Because it doesn't matter what the other side does, this stuff is wrong, bad, even evil when it's bad enough.

(Tryna do right by my new .sig. :) )
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #531 on: August 16, 2019, 08:52:07 am »
I remember when the Church first posted this statement condemning what happened in Charlottesville, some members used it to suggest the Church was both-siding it, and was really condemning antifa, Black Lives Matter, etc, and actually supported White Supremacy and White Nationalism, (this was especially in response to a White Supremacist member that was gaining more and more traction online and at WP events, who was making lots of claims that Church policy and doctrine actually supported her position).

In response, the Church made an unprescedented update making VERY Clear who they were talking about.

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It has been called to our attention that there are some among the various pro-white and white supremacy communities who assert that the Church is neutral toward or in support of their views. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the New Testament, Jesus said: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (Matthew 22:37–39). The Book of Mormon teaches “all are alike unto God” (2 Nephi 26:33).

White supremacist attitudes are morally wrong and sinful, and we condemn them. Church members who promote or pursue a “white culture” or white supremacy agenda are not in harmony with the teachings of the Church.

This resulting in LOTS of comments on the Church Facebook page from angry members saying that the Church was falling into the Liberal narrative, that White Supremacism wasn't really a thing, that Nationalism was a GOOD thing, and was just another word for Patriotism, demanding for them to also specifically denounce those who said, "Black Lives Matter" because it was JUST as bad and racist too, call out antifa, etc.

The Church, unlike some other denominations and professed Christian leaders (and politicians), didn't cave on this point. And I felt very proud.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 08:58:27 am by Taalcon »
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #532 on: August 16, 2019, 09:18:15 am »
An excellent example of the church reading Taalcon's post. 
 "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."

(I'm probably getting this in the wrong order or something.  It's back to school morning for my kiddos, and I'm not exactly sure where I fit in the timeline here.)
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #533 on: August 16, 2019, 09:20:58 pm »
We're heading into a recession. A big one. Recession is a good thing for the wealthiest one percent. They have the resources to buy lots of real estate at deeply discounted prices. When the market goes back up, they can use that real estate as security for all kinds of other investments. No complaints, there. This is capitalism.

However. This recession is ENGINEERED. Trump's trade war is driving it. Even the hardest-hit sector, American agriculture, still stands behind a morally bankrupt president who is using his public office to enrich the 1% (and himself, of course.) Sure, we can vote him out of office next year. It will be too late. We'll be in full recession in four months. The first big indicator was when big ticket luxury items, such as boats and RVs, fell by 40% over the summer. The next biggest indicator is happening now. Investors are moving money to tax-backed investments--the safest you can get even if they're low yield. Economists see it coming.

What will it take for people to understand that Donald Trump IS NOT a public servant. What will it take take for people to understand they have been sold a bill of goods?

I'm done blaming Trump for the decline of everything America stands for. The responsibility rests on those who continue to support him in spite of all the evidence that "Make America Great Again" is 180 degrees out from reality.
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #534 on: August 16, 2019, 09:43:55 pm »
However. This recession is ENGINEERED.
If we're gonna be throwing around conspiracy theories, then let's at least think about who would benefit with a country in recession during the next presidential election.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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JLM

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #535 on: August 17, 2019, 12:06:53 am »
That's simple.  Trump.  With a depressed real estate and stock market, he can buy properties and securities on the cheap.  Heck, he might even try to buy Greenland, which will increase in value as we heat up the Earth by pumping coal into the atmosphere. 

My wifw has been saying for the last two years that he is trying to tank the economy, and I'm starting to believe her.
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #536 on: August 17, 2019, 12:31:18 am »
Read what economists are saying. Look at what's happening in the market.

Jan Hatzius, Goldman Sachs chief economist: “We have increased our estimate of the growth impact of the trade war. Fourth-quarter growth could drop to 1.8 percent. The cumulative hit the trade war has dealt to the nation’s gross domestic product is at 0.6 percent. Fears that the trade war will trigger a recession are growing.”

Bruce Kasman, chief economist and head of economic research at J.P. Morgan: “I think we have a heightened risk of recession. I think the reason is that we’re seeing the intensification of the big drag in the global economy this year: The falling business confidence related to geopolitical concerns, particularly trade conflicts."

Nicolas Lardy, Senior Fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics: "American companies and consumers are the ones paying the price. Trump keeps putting out the big lie that prices are not going up because Chinese producers are absorbing the tariffs. Every independent study has found that Chinese producers are not lowering their prices.”

Marc Zandi, Chief Economist at Moody's Analytics: "The trade war with China already has eliminated 300,000 jobs and reduced the GDP growth by 0.3 percentage points. If Trump follows through with 10 percent on $300 billion, and tariffs stay there, the impact by the end of 2020 will be 0.7 percent. Trump’s likely got a recession on his hands."

For the first time since 2007, the yield curve inverted in the bond market. That means long term rates fell below short term rates. That means investors think the U.S. economy is headed for recession.

30 Central Banks around the world have recently cut interest rates because of slowdowns caused by Trump's trade war and the Brexit debacle.

People way smarter than me believe we're heading for a recession and that Trump's trade war is a chief cause. That's not conspiracy. It's economics.

 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #537 on: August 17, 2019, 01:49:24 pm »
Roper, I'm not saying a recession isn't coming.  I'm saying that JLM's post is a tad weird.

Trump wants a recession because it'll help him buy Greenland for cheap, and after he blackens the skies with coal and global warming, the earth will heat up and Greenland will go up in value?

I can't even fathom the mindset of someone who thinks that's a plausible. 

JLM, do you also think NASA faked the moon landing?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 02:21:34 pm by N3uroTypical »
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #538 on: August 17, 2019, 02:40:40 pm »
I think it was hyperbole to illustrate Trump's agenda in removing environmental safety regulations and promotion of U.S. dominance in oil and gas.
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #539 on: August 17, 2019, 03:22:10 pm »
Was it hyperbole, JLM?
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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