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Author Topic: Current Events - US Politics Edition  (Read 28340 times)

Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #570 on: August 26, 2019, 05:55:43 pm »
I think the existence of thousands of officers who participated in private Facebook online Hate Groups  are an interesting indicator.

As for crimes that are prosecuted? I don't know the percentage. Searching online, I only found a pretty detailed database of police officers who were actually arrested on crimes, from 2005 - 2014. Here's a report on that study.

(posted some additional stats earlier, but removed as I'm trying to verify the sources)

Here's a very interesting report that has some interesting statistics on responses from officers themselves.

Includes some stats like these:
"It is not unusual for a police officer to turn a blind eye to improper conduct by other officers."
 Strongly Agree: 1.8% Agree: 50.6%

"Police officers always report serious criminal violations involving abuse of authority by fellow officers."
Strongly Agree: 2.8%
Agree: 36.2 %
Disagree:58.5%
Strongly Disagree: 2.5%


« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 06:14:59 pm by Taalcon »
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #571 on: August 26, 2019, 08:03:04 pm »
Based on the response in this thread, I'm willing to entertain the idea.

Poll for folks on the same page with Sanders here:

1- What percentage of America's law enforcement do you believe are racist, or abuse power, or murder people?

2- What percentage of America's law enforcement agencies do you believe are corrupt, or hide crimes of those who work for it?

Before this thread, I would have guessed the average smart person would say under 1%.  But y'all smart people are agreeing with Sanders that the issue is so vast, it's worth the federal government swooping in to impose a nationwide solution.  So I wanted to ask.  Please help a poor stupid Trump supporter understand all you smart people.

18,000 Federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies in the U.S. So, even if only 1% are corrupt, that's still 180 agencies. That's too many.
800,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the U.S. So, even if only 1% abuse power, that's 8000 officers. That's too many.

The difference between law enforcement officers and other professions is that LEOs are given outsized public trust, are armed, and are authorized to use deadly force. Even 1% is too much.

For the record, I feel the same way about teachers. Given the amount of trust given to them and the responsibility they have for the safety of children, even 1% is too much.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 08:06:52 pm by Roper »
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #572 on: August 27, 2019, 11:04:30 am »
Ok then, asked and answered.  The Sanders tweets seems to be well received by his base.  I know more about the other side of the fence than before.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #573 on: August 27, 2019, 11:23:40 am »
Ok then, asked and answered.  The Sanders tweets seems to be well received by his base.  I know more about the other side of the fence than before.

To be clear from what you learned, it's not just 'his base'. I don't think Roper would consider himself In Bernie's Camp, and I specifically said in my previous posts:

Quote
I don't see eye to eye on Bernie on A LOT of things.

Quote
He's not by far on the top of any of my lists.

I do not consider myself a "Bernie Supporter", and ESPECIALLY not "his base". But on this issue, as it was expressed there, I genuinely don't see a problem.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 11:25:53 am by Taalcon »
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #574 on: August 27, 2019, 11:54:55 am »
All fair comments.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #575 on: August 28, 2019, 12:47:50 am »
Yeah, I'm definitely not part of Sanders' base. I do, however, believe that some of his ideas are worth consideration. I don't reject them just because Sanders is a different political party.
 
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JLM

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #576 on: August 28, 2019, 09:55:51 am »
A lot of Sanders' ideas are definitely on the crack pot side of things, but providing basic checks to reduce abusive police power should be a no brainer.  I used to be in the "blue lives" camp, but having witnessed people I care for being unjustly treated by law enforcement, I am a firm believer in strong civilian oversight and robust remedial measures.
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #577 on: August 29, 2019, 10:53:12 am »
I am a firm believer in strong civilian oversight and robust remedial measures.
So, me too, but that's not what Sanders was proposing.  He's pushing a massive unconstitutional federal expansion into local affairs.  10th amendment and all that. 

Quote
We have got to change how police departments operate, finally end police brutality and stop the killing of unarmed black and brown Americans.
...
When we are in the White House we will mandate criminal liability for civil rights violations resulting from police misconduct, and limit “qualified immunity” for police officers.
We will establish a national use of force standard that emphasizes de-escalation.
...
We will conduct a U.S. Attorney General’s investigation for ALL deaths involving the police and those in custody, establish civilian oversight of police departments, and create federal registries for police use of deadly force and misconduct.
...
We will revitalize the use of Justice Department investigations, consent decrees, and federal lawsuits to address systemic constitutional violations by police departments.
...
We will end harmful policing practices like racial profiling, stop and frisk, and oppressive “broken windows” policing – all of which actively undermine public safety and community trust in law enforcement.
...
Police forces should not look and act like invading armies. We must demilitarize our police forces

This would be like Red Dawn, except it would be the sheriffs and local law enforcement against the BATF.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #578 on: August 29, 2019, 11:57:00 am »
In other news, this is very good news for the US:

https://www.koaa.com/news/covering-colorado/u-s-space-command-launches-in-colorado-springs

An emerging new branch of the military, and it's space command component.  Folks in the great and spacious building of the politicized opposition have taken endless glee in pointing mocking fingers of scorn at the notion of Trump's Space Force.  But the serious mature people hold fast to the iron rod of national defense, marching resolutely towards the fruit which preserves our liberty, not to mention extending protection to the entire free world.

This hopefully will develop into the modern day version of building great earthen mounds and breastworks of timber round about our satellites, with the sci-fi version of towers erected overlooking them where the arrows of the Lamanites could not hurt them.  A place from which we can cast stones, according to our pleasure and our strength, and slay him who should attempt to approach near the walls of our cities.

The 2nd half of Alma makes for great sci-fi.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 01:27:51 pm by N3uroTypical »
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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pnr

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #579 on: August 29, 2019, 01:38:00 pm »
Law enforcement corruption is a reflection of the society from which they are selected.    As we get more dishonesst (some would call it situationally dishonest), as we get more sexualized, as we talk and think more violently, it should not surprise us that we have applicants for law enforcement that reflect all of the problematic ethics the rest of our communities regularly demonstrate.

In addition, it is a rare department that does the kind of screening required to hire honorable/competent/thoughtful officers.   When I was hiring for police officers, I put them through a polygraph, not because you can figure out who lies --- pre-employment polygraphs are notoriously unreliable, but because the examiner asks a bunch of pre-test questions that candidates answer honestly to get baseline.   And for those who admitted marijuana experimentation and the extent, and other things, and described what they'd done to rehabilitate, you had reasonably good data on overall honorableness.   But the other thing I did was to lay out the law enforcement tools (all candidates had previously completed police academy) and have them choose what they wanted and them have them in scenarios ---- high school and college kids just loved to taunt and be pains in the butt and get paid for doing so.   It was stunning how those who any department would have hired on basis of the paper and recommendations (and in some of the cases were already officers somewhere else) would get upset and disregard the civil rights of the people they were supposed to be solving problems with.   We went through more than 150 candidates (40 through the entire process (at great expense) to get the original 6 officers we could hire, and it took us more than a year to get the full 8.    Departments that don't spend that money and take those precautions weed out the bad ones over their career and at no small expense to the community that they wreck their havoc within.
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
 
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JLM

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #580 on: August 29, 2019, 07:54:39 pm »
It's so cute when neofaciests try to defend  bad state behavior under the guise of the 10 amendment.  10th amendment is the claasic red herring diversionary tactic and rarely is an issue with respect to federal power.  The real question is whether it falls within the scope of the enumerated federal powers or not.  There is a very strong case that what Sanders has proposed falls within the scope of the 15th and 16th amendments to enforce constitutionaly protected rights and equal protections of protected classes.  10th amendment...  ::) 
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #581 on: August 29, 2019, 10:39:30 pm »
So, me too, but that's not what Sanders was proposing.  He's pushing a massive unconstitutional federal expansion into local affairs.  10th amendment and all that. 
It's so cute when neofaciests try to defend  bad state behavior under the guise of the 10 amendment.  10th amendment is the claasic red herring diversionary tactic and rarely is an issue with respect to federal power.  The real question is whether it falls within the scope of the enumerated federal powers or not.  There is a very strong case that what Sanders has proposed falls within the scope of the 15th and 16th amendments to enforce constitutionaly protected rights and equal protections of protected classes.  10th amendment...  ::)

JLM, are you calling me a neofacist?  On top of calling me stupid?
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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LMAshton

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #582 on: August 30, 2019, 03:54:25 am »
Hey, people, seriously. Cut out name calling or anything that can be interpreted as name calling. That includes stupid and neofascist and libtard and all those other names. Argue with facts, fine. Leave any derogatory behavior out.
Nauvoo Member #701 aka quidscribis, joined April 2003
 
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Curelom

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #583 on: August 30, 2019, 10:06:01 pm »
Is it OK to call politicians stupid, neo-Nazi, or other derogatory names if they are true?  ;D
 
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JLM

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #584 on: August 30, 2019, 10:38:35 pm »
I'm not trying to name call.  I'm applying what I see as an appropriate label to a class of individuals who exhibit beliefs and behaviors I find harmful.  Trumps behavior and policies are endangering our free society, and puts at great risk the welfare of our nation and the world.  I truely believe that the otherwise good people that continue to support him have not put in the requisite intellectual rigor to grasp the severity of the situation.  On the second issue, the 10th amendment argument is a misunderstanding of constitutional law and is often raised as an argument by individuals who defend politically motivated state sanctioned discrimination.  So pardon my use of terse labels, but I think they are properly descriptive.
 
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