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Author Topic: Current Events - US Politics Edition  (Read 31356 times)

N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #420 on: July 16, 2019, 06:02:50 pm »
Trump is a master showman.  His tweets and statements and whatnot paint him as an inflammatory divisive antagonistic jerk.   He's not a bridge builder, he's an old school power broker who uses his leverage (whenever he's got it) openly and unapologetically.

I wonder what it's like when the cameras are turned off. 

Its interesting to watch the public trashing he gives people, and all the visibility his firings and character comments get.  I would bet ten bucks though, there's an endless line of people waiting for presidential appointments, and getting a public trashing by POTUS is considered maybe not a badge of honor, but hardly a negative thing.  I wonder if a "former insider fired and bashed by Trump" person has additional opportunities, or increased leverage in various beltway circles, or similar advantages.  Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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Palmon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #421 on: July 16, 2019, 06:57:45 pm »
Showman.

When he causes a kerfuffle on one hand - watch the other one.

It's been said that because of his massive TV experience, he is a master of the story arc, using his tweets to stoke it.

What's the story with this one?  Will the outrage his tweets caused result in greater Left unity? Or bring to the forefront the Squad, giving them more power just when the Pelosi was trying to diminish it?
 
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JLM

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #422 on: July 16, 2019, 06:57:59 pm »
Just a little FYI.  Every time you try to defend Trump, you lower his status even more in my view.  Moat of your arguments in favor of him are exactly the reason I oppose him.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #423 on: July 16, 2019, 07:09:51 pm »
Quote
Are you suggesting that all supporters of Trump are equally guilty because some people that 'supposedly' agreed with them were violent? In that case, do all supporters of the left carry the sin of Antifa? I don't think they do.

Trump's platform and position is that the Media are the Enemy of the People. He knows attacks happen. He laughs about it, and keeps doing it. He's been on camera saying he'd pay the legal expenses of people who punched out protesters. The violence and the anger and the ugly parts aren't  a bug, it's a feature of his presidency and his platform.

I don't know any ANTIFA platform, or leaders. I don't know of any leaders I've supported or voted for who have encouraged and delighted in violent actions they've taken.

When Trump is called on to disavow followers who do horrible things, he softballs it, and then uses the opportunity to say how horrible the victim must have been, suggests they deserved what they got, and that they were the real bad guys. It sends the message to those who do those things that he's got their back.

I know many who want to vote for Trump, but actively avoid listening to his rallys, or avoid what he says on Twitter, or on his news conferences. And then when the Media picks up on it, they say, "Oh, they must be exaggerating or taking out of context."

I watch the rallys. I follow the tweets. I listen to the interviews. The ones who do the nastiest stuff with their red MAGA hats are taking Trump's rhetoric at full value, and going to the next logical step.

Your equivalence doesn't make any sense. (Especially since I've stated many times that I do not associate with any party - I've never voted Democrat in the Presidential election before) And there is no candidate I'm considering supporting in 2020 who would at all be considered a Figurehead of ANTIFA.

Quote
I wonder what it's like when the cameras are turned off. 
When he thinks everything off, he's bragging to others about how he can (and has) sexually assaulted women as soon as he meets one, married or not, because he's powerful. I'm sure you're quite familiar with the actual words he used, so I don't think a quote is necessary.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #424 on: July 16, 2019, 07:18:57 pm »
Quote
What's the story with this one?  Will the outrage his tweets caused result in greater Left unity? Or bring to the forefront the Squad, giving them more power just when the Pelosi was trying to diminish it?

By the way, if anybody but the President used their position to say what Trump said, they could be in violation of the Law and be fired.

From the government's Equal Employment Opportunity Commission website:

Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's foreign accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from, " whether made by supervisors or by co-workers.
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #425 on: July 16, 2019, 07:46:04 pm »
NT and Palmon have it right. Trump's a showman. He keeps everyone's attention focused on drama instead of examining the evidence that he has failed in his two biggest promises to make America great again--the wall and trade deals.

Trump had two years when congress rubber stamped almost anything which came out of the Oval Office.

He failed to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it. (He now blames the Democrats in congress.)

He has failed to get significant trade deals. The "deal" with South Korea was just a minor reworking of the Korea-US Free Trade Agreement. South Korea agreed not to sell pickups in the U.S. (they weren't, anyway) and U.S. pharma expanded their South Korea market by a bit. In the end, the result was trivial for trade. China: Nada. Even Trump says, "There's a long way to go." Meanwhile, economists outside of White House influence almost universally agree that the tariff war has had an overall negative effect on the U.S. economy. The U.S.-Mexico-Canada agreement to replace NAFTA has some good news for U.S. workers in the automotive industry. It removes some of the incentives for outsourcing. However, it wasn't, as Trump put it, "The most important trade deal we've ever made by far." It was a modest gain. And the EU: Trump demands a market for U.S. agriculture. The EU vows to protect its own farmers. Zero real movement despite the almost daily tweets. Maybe Boris Johnson can get a deal with Trump after Great Britain leaves the EU. We'll see. The best trade deal for America would have been the Trans Pacific Partnership. Trump withdrew 3 days after he took office. The other countries went ahead. In April of this year, Trump ordered his trade team to seek to rejoin the TPP and re-negotiate the original deal. The 11 other countries are not willing at this point. So much for putting America first with all these trade deals.

American banks stopped loaning money to Trump years ago because his business ventures failed and went bankrupt. Now, Trump has turned America into another one of his failed business ventures on a global scale.  But instead of calling Trump out for his failed "deals", Democrats and the media have been watching his daily circus.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 

Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #426 on: July 16, 2019, 08:37:31 pm »
Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's foreign accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from, " whether made by supervisors or by co-workers.
It's interesting how many laws don't apply to the President or how many laws the President can get around through executive order. I've watched Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump all do it to protect their personal interests and to circumvent the checks and balances of the other branches. It seems the executive branch has consistently become more powerful while the House and Senate have consistently become weaker. I wonder how to shift that back...
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 08:41:07 pm by Roper »
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #427 on: July 16, 2019, 09:45:47 pm »
By the way, if anybody but the President used their position to say what Trump said, they could be in violation of the Law and be fired.

From the government's Equal Employment Opportunity Commission website:

Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's foreign accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from, " whether made by supervisors or by co-workers.

Oh man.  That was almost the funniest thing I heard all week.  Almost.  Then I remembered the sorts of downright evil things some EEOC offices have done in the past - like sue family-owned Korean restaurants out of business because their employee base didn't mirror the racial demographics of the neighborhood where they were located.  They did that, like a lot.  Until someone sued them, pointing out that the local EEOC office was guilty of the same.  Buncha evil, evil white liberals.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #428 on: July 16, 2019, 09:46:26 pm »
Just a little FYI.  Every time you try to defend Trump, you lower his status even more in my view.  Moat of your arguments in favor of him are exactly the reason I oppose him.
Who are you talking to?  I haven't seen anyone defending Trump on this thread...   :o
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 

Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #429 on: July 17, 2019, 12:17:05 am »
In other news: It's interesting that the left has shifted from support of "socialism" to what they're now calling "democratic socialism." I really have no idea what they're talking about. They keep referring to the Nordic countries of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark as shining examples of democratic socialism. Those countries don't have socialist economies. They're based on free market capitalism. According to the Economic Freedom of the World Index published by the Fraser Institute, and the Index of Economic Freedom published by The Heritage Foundation and Wall Street Journal, the Nordic countries, along with most Western European countries, are ranked higher in economic freedom than Japan and South Korea, both of which have strong market based economies. Nordic countries have successful free market economies AND high taxes to support their generous social programs. They don't have economies based on socialism. The national discussion we should be having is this: What increases in social programs are worth paying for with higher taxes? We shouldn't be debating about making the U.S. into a socialist country. That's just a waste of brain bandwidth.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 12:20:53 am by Roper »
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #430 on: July 17, 2019, 08:33:55 am »
Quote
Then I remembered the sorts of downright evil things some EEOC offices have done in the past - like sue family-owned Korean restaurants out of business because their employee base didn't mirror the racial demographics of the neighborhood where they were located.  They did that, like a lot.  Until someone sued them, pointing out that the local EEOC office was guilty of the same.  Buncha evil, evil white liberals.

You are aware that people who see Trump's rhetoric, policies, and points vile do not not give a free pass to corruption elsewhere, right?

"LOL! You're funny! Look at something bad someone else did!" doesn't make the point I think you're trying to make. I'm not a fan of abuse of a system or hypocrisy within it either. That's sort of the point.

Part of the primary process is to call out or question candidates who have supported or enabled the kind of corruption we are against. Those who want to get Trump out don't want more of the same just wearing another Jersey.

To be strongly opposed to Trump doesn't mean you approve everything Obama did. Or that you're a raging fan of Hillary Clinton. Or you cheer ANTIFA.

I don't get this whole, "A is bad." "Yeah, well, B did something bad too, so that makes the criticism of A invalid," thing. That's not addressing the issues, it's avoiding them.

In this election, I don't care what Obama did, or what Hillary Clinton did. They're not up for election. I don't have to justify my disdain for Trump by some false equivalent to something it's assumed I must "therefore" also Tribally support.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #431 on: July 17, 2019, 08:36:56 am »
Just a little FYI.  Every time you try to defend Trump, you lower his status even more in my view.  Moat of your arguments in favor of him are exactly the reason I oppose him.
Who are you talking to?  I haven't seen anyone defending Trump on this thread...   :o

He might of been referring to this long list of things that began with, "I am not happy with the standard kick-the-deficit-spending-down-the-road approach he and the last half-dozen presidents have had. But I have to admit, I like just about everything else."
 
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cook

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #432 on: July 17, 2019, 10:23:49 am »
 Roper - it works, the democratic socialism. And even though much is based on that, we only have one party called social democrats in our multi party system, so there is room for variety of thoughs.

Honestly, I think it's worth paying taxes to get the same education for all (which they tend to think quite good), even at university level. You can get it wether you or your parents have money or not. I like it how everyone is guaranteed healthcare, regular and special and the cost is ridiculously low. I'm happy to help others that way and also glad to be on the receiving end at times. I'm happy to pay for the 9 month maternity leave and the chance for parents to take care of their children at home up to age 3. And that those with children get benefits (though tax reductions based on children might be better). Those are all things that are important to me, so I'm happy all have the same opportunities.
 
Finland is a good place to be in    ;D
 
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Roper

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #433 on: July 17, 2019, 11:10:19 am »
I think those things are economic investments. Universal education through college leads to a better educated citizenry and that leads to most people having better paying careers (which generates more tax revenue) and lessens the strain on safety net programs for people in poverty. Universal health care leads to a healthier citizenry and that leads to higher workplace productivity and again lessens the strain on safety net programs for people with no insurance. Generous family leave policies lead to more stable families and happier workers, which again lead to all kinds of economic benefits. I'm happy to pay increased taxes for increased social benefits. In American politics, however, raising taxes = political suicide.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #434 on: July 17, 2019, 11:12:49 am »
I don't get this whole, "A is bad." "Yeah, well, B did something bad too, so that makes the criticism of A invalid," thing. That's not addressing the issues, it's avoiding them.
Quote
He might of been referring to this long list of things that began with, "I am not happy with the standard kick-the-deficit-spending-down-the-road approach he and the last half-dozen presidents have had. But I have to admit, I like just about everything else."


I get it!  People think I'm defending Trump!   Like he's my guy or something!   So Taalcon, you got a strawman going there.  Putting words in my mouth I didn't say, didn't imply, and don't believe.  Trump's recent tweets were an attempt to ride the wave of democrats being divided, and he managed to screw up and pull defeat out of the jaws of victory.  The EEOC quote was sort of the capstone on how bad he screwed up, until I remembered what the EEOC has stood for and done in the past. 

Ok, my bad.  Let me clarify: I'm not on team Trump.  I feel absolutely no need whatsoever to defend the guy.  I get to be happy with what I'm happy with, and not happy with what I'm not happy with.  Again, not only did I --not-- vote for the guy, I actively campaigned against him (on the internet from my armchair at least). 

I'm able to separate policies from people.  I'm also able to giggle with girlish glee when I hear some stuff coming out his mouth that I've wished a president would say for 20 years (like finally calling out CNN as the lying spin machine for leftism it's been for years).   It's ok to be for some things and against other things.

I'm interested mainly in arguing policies.  I know hatin' trump is top on so many lists these days, but personal politics bore me.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 11:15:23 am by N3uroTypical »
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
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