Welcome to New Nauvoo


Author Topic: Current Events - US Politics Edition  (Read 22509 times)

N3uroTypical

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Thanked: 522 times
  • Country: 00
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #255 on: March 11, 2019, 02:23:12 pm »
"Charity does not mean that I should take the actual words of a politician and wrest them to be politically palatable."

By my reading, charity pretty much demands you refrain from taking the actual words of a politician and thinkething-evil about them.

Like how when Pres. Hinckley told Larry King and Mark Wallace the WoW meant no to caffeine, we all sort of knew what he was saying, and it's not "We don't drink caffeine".  Like that kind of charity, except offered to someone politically unpalatable.

Or maybe we should judge Hinckley's words in the same light.  So what do you think Roper, was our Prophet out of touch?  Outright lying?  Pushing up against dementia?  I mean, apply your skills at English the same way to those interviews.

Trump is politically unpalatable, whereas Hinckley is religiously palatable.  But God says charity should be offered to both.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

JLM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 234 times
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #256 on: March 11, 2019, 03:09:33 pm »
Trump is ethically, morally, logically and socially unpalatable.  He has said, done and promoted enough things contrary to the gospel of Christ, that his fruits speak for themselves.  Mormons who defend him are like the Nephites who supported the robbers in their midst.  No, Trump does not get a benefit of the doubt, as there is no doubt where his heart lies.
 
The following users thanked this post: LMAshton, Iggy, Roper

Jacaré

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Thanked: 108 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #257 on: March 11, 2019, 04:05:11 pm »
Thank you, Roper.

When Trump finished his remarks about drugs and rapists, he followed up with something like, "and I'm sure some of them are nice people," clearly indicating that he felt they were the minority. Maybe I wasn't precise enough in my description of his remarks, since I didn't specify that he was talking about illegal immigrants from Mexico and not necessarily all Mexicans. Either way his statement was false and designed, it seems to me (don't want to be too absolutist in my interpretation of clearly communicated ideas) to stoke racial animosity in the group that he perceives to be his base.

Maybe I'm too sensitive on the subject. I spent the last 30 years of my working life living in a predominantly minority community and taught for 10 years in a high school that was around 80% Hispanic. Many of my students were Dreamers. One of my former Dreamers is now studying to be a Catholic priest. I had one student's mom who was a big supporter of our ROTC program, frequently helping out at activities and such. I had no idea she was here illegally. Her daughter has since graduated from college and works for the National Park Service. I love those kids and am proud of them. It was an honor to have them in my class.

Having said all that -- I support many of Trump's initiatives. I believe illegal immigration is a serious problem that calls for serious solutions. I believe a border barrier of some kind, whether it be a wall, a fence, or a Star Wars style force field should be one of those solutions; not for the entire 2,000 miles or whatever the length of the border, but strategically placed to augment and enhance whatever other processes are in place.

I believe sanctuary cities are a travesty. They endanger not only the lives of American citizens, but the lives of legitimate immigrants in minority communities, because that's where illegal immigrant criminals are most likely to hang out.

So there are things that Trump supports that I support. There are things that I don't. Either way, Trump debases both himself and his position when he resorts to demagoguery.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 04:22:16 pm by Jacaré »
"He was old, Ephraim. He was 52."
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

N3uroTypical

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
  • Thanked: 522 times
  • Country: 00
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #258 on: March 12, 2019, 10:32:40 am »
Trump is ethically, morally, logically and socially unpalatable.  He has said, done and promoted enough things contrary to the gospel of Christ, that his fruits speak for themselves.  Mormons who defend him are like the Nephites who supported the robbers in their midst.  No, Trump does not get a benefit of the doubt, as there is no doubt where his heart lies.

Quote
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

Taalcon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 386
  • Thanked: 554 times
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #259 on: March 12, 2019, 11:02:23 am »
N3uro, with all due respect, Jesus, and the prophets before him, called out corrupt politicians and religious leaders whose actions and hearts were causing emotional, physical, and spiritual suffering to their constituents. It is actually one of the hallmarks of historic Prophetic ministry. (Remember that time where Jesus wouldn't give Herod the benefit of hearing his voice, but still compared him derogatorily to a fox in front of others?)

It is done out of Charity for those for whom those powerful individuals are oppressing and harming.

There are times that people (including family members, politicians, and others in position of power and influence over others) have revealed themselves so clearly, to continue to support and give them the benefit of the doubt begins to be harmful not just to them, but to oneself and others as well who are within their influence.

Charity does not include supporting, excusing, or ignoring abuse. It can include hoping one will change, but it does not include trusting and supporting or facilitating the consistent behavior while they have not. Especially when one is in a position to continue to do harm to others.

When a bully says bullying things 20 times a day, it is not charitable to say one of those 20 things, consistent with other bullying language used on other contexts, might be interpreted to NOT be bullying. There are other words for what one is doing in that case, but, from my perspective,  'charitable' is not one of them.

I know many, many people who desperately wanted (and want!) to be able to support Policy Trump, and tried for a long time to put a spin on his rhetoric into something gracious, but have long given up on trying to allow themselves to give him the benefit of the doubt on, well, anything. Because it hurt their head and heart too much to do so. They tried the 'charity' path, but came to a point where they realized that what they had convinced themselves was 'charity' and 'hope' was in fact just a manifestation of 'political loyalty'.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 11:50:29 am by Taalcon »
 
The following users thanked this post: Iggy, Roper

JLM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 234 times
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #260 on: March 12, 2019, 01:20:46 pm »
Quote
There are other words for what one is doing in that case, but, from my perspective,  'charitable' is not one of them. 

I think the polite term is "enabling."
 
The following users thanked this post: LMAshton, Iggy, Roper, Taalcon

Roper

  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1441
  • Thanked: 1715 times
  • Country: us
  • Earning my spurs.
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #261 on: March 12, 2019, 07:46:55 pm »
By my reading, charity pretty much demands you refrain from taking the actual words of a politician and thinkething-evil about them.
1: Are you sure you know what I'm thinking? 2: I'm not thinking evil. I'm doing a bit of rhetorical analysis.
 

Curelom

  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1575
  • Thanked: 844 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #262 on: March 22, 2019, 02:37:30 am »
Would you just look at this? A day after several days of additional trashing of an American hero who isn’t even alive to defend himself, along with trashing other American public figures plus the husband of one of his own last little handful of employees who will put up with his ****, look what he does.   >:(

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-congratulates-Putin-on-his-reelection-12767317.php

It’s trite to say it, but you Just. Can't. Make. This. Stuff. Up. :(
 

Taalcon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 386
  • Thanked: 554 times
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #263 on: March 22, 2019, 09:29:00 am »
Would you just look at this? A day after several days of additional trashing of an American hero who isn’t even alive to defend himself, along with trashing other American public figures plus the husband of one of his own last little handful of employees who will put up with his ****, look what he does.   >:(

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-congratulates-Putin-on-his-reelection-12767317.php

It’s trite to say it, but you Just. Can't. Make. This. Stuff. Up. :(
Listen, I can't stand the guy, but look at the date:  Tuesday, March 20, 2018

It was stupid and a problem then, but it's not in the context of the above stuff. He does enough new insane stuff. No need to make old insane and careless stuff new again.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 09:31:08 am by Taalcon »
 
The following users thanked this post: LMAshton

Curelom

  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1575
  • Thanked: 844 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #264 on: March 22, 2019, 12:45:16 pm »
You're right, I got this from sfgate.com which often resurrects old stories that they think are interesting because they are related to current stuff. I should have read more carefully. Mea culpa! (something no one will ever hear DT say).

Not to worry. There will be lots more evidence to come that the 25th Amendment is necessary,  even if those who should impose it refuse to.
 

Curelom

  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1575
  • Thanked: 844 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #265 on: March 23, 2019, 07:11:43 pm »
Iowa wingnut racist sympathizer & neo-Nazi apologist congressman (whose own party took away his committee assignments as discipline for his race-baiting & other inflammatory sayings) disparages Katrina disaster aid recipients, & says Iowans take care of themselves.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/steve-king-belittles-katrina-flood-victims-in-new-orleans-compared-to-iowa/?ref=hvper.com

But do we hear him turning down FEMA money when it’s authorized?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-approves-iowa-disaster-declaration/ar-BBV94gf?ocid=spartanntp

He never said “no” to this big welfare check either, did he?

https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=19000
 

Curelom

  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1575
  • Thanked: 844 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #266 on: March 25, 2019, 11:07:52 pm »
I guess everyone is so exhausted by the discussions, debates, & arguments over what Mueller's report would or wouldn't reveal that no one is talking about it anymore.

So I guess I won't. We all deserve a rest, however short. I'm going up to the Cabin.
 

Jason

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
  • Thanked: 221 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #267 on: March 28, 2019, 08:36:22 am »
It was actually quite remarkable the lack of Russia stories on the air this week. Suddenly the only important topic is healthcare. Republicans were expecting a "pivot", but this was so dramatic and synchronized that I am surprised it is not a news story in and of itself. This pivot was asked for by Nancy Pelosi. I seriously wonder if the networks got the exact same talking points together to synchronize their pivot.

As someone who occasionally enjoys watching CNN and MSNBC, I am a little saddened by how little introspection and lack of public apology has occurred by the talking heads. When pressed, most of them doubled down and said that their own reporting and opinionating was fair, reasonable, and necessary. The near daily calls for impeachment, and flat out false and/or poor reporting should be cause for an apology. My trust in the intelligence and media communities were shaken with the horribly wrong reporting on weapons of mass destruction that led us to war in Iraq. I think the Russia collusion story is equally faith shaking. Why should I believe the narrative they are presenting on any other topics when they have time and time again shown they cannot be trusted. Even a simple, "we occasionally overreached, we recognize that and hope to do better in the future" would do wonders for my trust in them as institutions.

Back in 2012 the Democrats (starting with President Obama) were openly mocking Mitt Romney when he said that Russia was our top geopolitical threat. They did a sudden pivot when the narrative benefited them politically in 2016/17. Those were the first signs I saw that this was all politically motivated. If they cannot admit their shortcomings in the Russian collusion story, I will be a strong skeptic of anything they report that conveniently seems to fit the narrative that they want.
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper, Palmon

Palmon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 458
  • Thanked: 415 times
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #268 on: March 28, 2019, 02:07:11 pm »
No doubt there are talking-heads noticing this great pivot but they are probably on networks that no one watches because they are too conservative.
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

JLM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 234 times
    • View Profile
Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« Reply #269 on: March 28, 2019, 06:02:27 pm »
Wait, what are you talking about?  The "pivot" you are talking about was done by Trumpkins himself.  The news is merely following the story.  Politically, it was probably the stupidest thing he could have done. 

All Muller found was that there was insufficient evidence to show a "meeting of the minds" in order to establish a conspiracy charge.  Nevertheless, Trumpy did benefit from Russian interference, and frankly welcomed it.  Obstruction of justice is still on the table though
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

 

* Top Posters

Curelom
1575 Posts
Roper Roper
1441 Posts
dyany dyany
910 Posts
LMAshton LMAshton
787 Posts
N3uroTypical N3uroTypical
582 Posts

* Recent Posts

Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition by N3uroTypical
[Today at 05:04:51 pm]


Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition by JLM
[Today at 01:56:04 pm]


Re: What are you reading? by Roper
[Today at 01:37:05 pm]


Re: What are you reading? by dyany
[Today at 12:05:54 pm]


Re: What are you reading? by Palmon
[Today at 10:28:03 am]

* Board Statistics

  • stats Total Members: 112
  • stats Total Posts: 12688
  • stats Total Topics: 796
  • stats Total Categories: 6
  • stats Total Boards: 26
  • stats Most Online: 65

  • averages Average Posts: 10
  • averages Average Topics: 1
  • averages Average Members: 0
  • averages Average Online: 19

* Forum Staff

AndrewR_admin admin AndrewR_admin
Administrator
dyany admin dyany
Administrator
LMAshton admin LMAshton
Administrator

* Calendar

August 2019
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 [24]
25 26 27 28 29 30 31

No calendar events were found.