Welcome to New Nauvoo


Author Topic: Predictions for the coming General Conference?  (Read 3898 times)

AndrewR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 340
  • Thanked: 331 times
  • Country: gb
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #60 on: April 10, 2018, 05:19:37 am »
Quote
Any high priest that was ever ordained an elder is still an elder. 

That is true. However, what about those that weren't? I know a very small few who were ordained High Priests along with receipt of the Melchizedek priesthood.

Besides, I wasn't saying it was wrong to do it. I was saying it was a departure from scriptural understanding that prompted the same Apostles to instruct stakes to NOT call HP's as EQP's.

I think the change makes sense. I am not convinced for the need for the Stake High Priest Quroum however.

I would also like to see clarification about the rest of the EQP's role and responsibilities. Nothing about whether he gets Temple and Family History consultants to still oversee, or if this devolves to the Bishopric.

Self-reliance will also be high on his agenda. The entire Melchizedek Priesthood section of Book 2 needs replacing, and soon.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
The following users thanked this post: Taalcon

Randy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 108
  • Thanked: 58 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #61 on: April 10, 2018, 02:19:30 pm »
I'm going to give this exactly one more try.

Andrew:
Quote
Besides, I wasn't saying it was wrong to do it. I was saying it was a departure from scriptural understanding that prompted the same Apostles to instruct stakes to NOT call HP's as EQP's.

It wasn't your saying it was wrong that I was disagreeing with.  It was your saying it is a departure from scriptural understanding that I was disagreeing with.

When the stakes were instructed not to call HP's as EQP's, those HP's were not members of the Elders Quorum.  Hence, if a president was to be chosen from their midst, they could not call a HP.  Now, the HP's ARE members of the Elders Quorum.  Therefore, in calling a president from the membership of the Elders Quorum, there is no contradiction.

Here's the distinction.  A president should be called from the membership of the quorum.  That has not changed.  They still do that.
 

Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
  • Thanked: 107 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #62 on: April 10, 2018, 09:59:37 pm »
It is the Elders Quorum who do the most in my Branch. The HP Leader has yet to show up to any of the Branch Councils - he has yet to *Instruct* a class when it is his turn, instead he corners my husband as he comes out of the bathroom after sacrament, hands him 5 copies of the magazine article, then ducks out the door.

Hubby is hoping they will call the one and only HP who will actually do something progressive with this calling, then hope he calls some of the Elder Quorum who have proven that they magnify their calling.

He is also hoping they will release him as Sunday School President. He is tired.

I am hoping that come our Branch Conference (two weeks away) they will be releasing the Branch Presidency and calling new.
 

AndrewR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 340
  • Thanked: 331 times
  • Country: gb
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2018, 11:58:30 am »
Quote
Here's the distinction.  A president should be called from the membership of the quorum.

That's is correct.

That isn't the change. What defines a quorum is what the change is.

We have no Teachers quorum, because we have no young men in that office (or age). So why not have three of the High Priest be the Teachers quorum? They can take care of preparing the sacrament each week. Although it's nearly 23 years since I was released as an Elders Quorum president, is a whole lot more (38) since I was released as Teachers Quorum president. I wouldn't mind having that calling again.

Again. I am not saying the changes are wrong. I am saying they have changed what was previously read from the scriptures. And the Brethren have not said, we studied it and found we were in error. They have announced a change of what constitutes an Elders Quorum. Just as the re-defined what marriage could be in with OD 1.

I am fine with it, and I think it will strengthen the work of the Priesthood in the units.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
The following users thanked this post: Taalcon

Taalcon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
  • Thanked: 216 times
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2018, 02:12:56 pm »
Joseph Smith felt free to add, subtract, and revise from the administrative sections of the D&C revelations regularly. The current forms are not the original forms. He viewed it, and all revelation, much like we view the CHI today. No different, actually. Key difference was how strongly the 'Thus Sayeth The Lord' was made rhetorically and textually explicit. The Standard to follow until more is learned, and it's revised. An open canon to Joseph didn't mean just the ability or authority to add, but also the mandate to be willing to revise with new understanding. Joseph did both.

I think the public sustaining is important when there's a massive cultural and practical shift beyond reorganizing meeting groups. OD 1 and 2 were MASSIVE cultural shifts in belief and practice that required members to be on board. Massive shifts that have a heightened potential to cause Schism are excellent opportunities to sustain an action.
 

Sparky

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
  • Thanked: 47 times
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2018, 03:18:25 pm »
The EQ and HP quorum presidencies were disolved on Sunday. Then that night the EQ president (who was the same man who had been EP president before) called and asked to come by our house and when he did he called my husband (a HP) as secretary to the EQ presidency. So the changes in our ward will occur next Sunday. Interestingly, the 1st and 2nd counselors are also HP, so the only member of the presidency who is an Elder is the president.
 
The following users thanked this post: Taalcon

AndrewR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 340
  • Thanked: 331 times
  • Country: gb
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2018, 08:31:36 pm »
Quote
Massive shifts that have a heightened potential to cause Schism are excellent opportunities to sustain an action.

I think you may be surprised that be some this is a "massive shift". They may not think so now - but it has the potential.

I grew up expecting my black friends in Primary to hold the priesthood one day. And I was so happy when it happened sooner than I expected. I never expected the opportunity to serve as an EQP again - especially since the Brethren specifically forbade it.

This is more of a shift than some may think.
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 

Taalcon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
  • Thanked: 216 times
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2018, 08:54:06 pm »
I acknowledge it has significant eventual implications. But to suggest it would have a comparable strong immediate and long-term cultural impact with implications on belief and practice and the personal lives of members as the two events under discussion is ...  a little baffling to me.
 

Roper

  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
  • Thanked: 1282 times
  • Country: us
  • Earning my spurs.
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2018, 09:49:20 pm »
As the motorcycle industry would say of advancements such as ride-by-wire throttle control and anti-lock brakes, this is evolutionary, not revolutionary.
 
The following users thanked this post: Taalcon

Taalcon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
  • Thanked: 216 times
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2018, 01:54:33 pm »
(•_•)
<)   )╯Two
/    \

\(•_•)
(   (> Hour
/    \

 (•_•)
<)   )>  Block
/    \

(For real this time ... )
 
The following users thanked this post: Roper

Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
  • Thanked: 107 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2018, 06:04:48 pm »
(•_•)
<)   )╯Two
/    \

\(•_•)
(   (> Hour
/    \

 (•_•)
<)   )>  Block
/    \

(For real this time ... )
Taalcon, how would that work? Sacrament=one block, GD/all of Primary/Youth SS= 1/2 block???, RS/PH, YM/YM=1/2 block???
 

Taalcon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
  • Thanked: 216 times
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2018, 06:16:48 pm »
I talked about this a little in another (off topic!) thread ... I'll repost here:

My understanding of how this would hypothetically work would likely involve some form of alternating weeks for SS/PS-RS. I'm not sure exactly how this would work in regards to Primary*. I would expect it may also involve a shortening of Sacrament Meeting in some form or another.

Note that we haven't yet seen the Come Follow Me manuals for P/RS or Sunday School, so we don't know how they're set up schedule wise. They appear to begin getting distributed the week before conference. Be interesting to see if ultimately there's any correlation.

There's an understanding also that the Church is trying to decrease the number of new chapels being built. Shaving an extra hour off of each unit would allow more units to meet in a single building, allowing consolidation of existing resources, and other considerations going forward.

Also:
“We have spent many hours talking about how we can simplify our Church programs to perform their essential function for a wide variety of family circumstances,” said President Oaks. “Now, I am pleased to tell you that some help is on the way and more is under discussion.” - President Oaks, August 30 2018

* (A change I don't expect but would welcome? Rather than making Sacrament Meeting shorter, following the passing and partaking of the Sacrament as a family, release the Primary children to a sharing time while the remainder of the adults remain for the talks/sermons portion of the service. This is how many other churches handle Sunday Worship services - that the children are dismissed to Children's Church during the sermon portion. There is more chance of more people being edified with less 'young child wrangling' going on for an hour in the benches)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 06:23:42 pm by Taalcon »
 
The following users thanked this post: Iggy

Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 376
  • Thanked: 107 times
  • Country: us
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2018, 08:08:05 pm »
<<snip>>
Also:
“We have spent many hours talking about how we can simplify our Church programs to perform their essential function for a wide variety of family circumstances,” said President Oaks. “Now, I am pleased to tell you that some help is on the way and more is under discussion.” - President Oaks, August 30 2018

* (A change I don't expect but would welcome? Rather than making Sacrament Meeting shorter, following the passing and partaking of the Sacrament as a family, release the Primary children to a sharing time while the remainder of the adults remain for the talks/sermons portion of the service. This is how many other churches handle Sunday Worship services - that the children are dismissed to Children's Church during the sermon portion. There is more chance of more people being edified with less 'young child wrangling' going on for an hour in the benches)
I agree with this.

When I was 8-12 back in 1960-1964, the Primary met in it's own room and had Sacrament passed to them there, while the adults remained in the Chapel to receive the Sacrament,  then we had a few 2 minute talks, plus our songs, then we were dismissed to our classes.

Fast forward to 2002 and Primary age sits for the entire Sacrament time, partakes of the sacrament in the Chapel. When ALL the membership is dismissed - primary goes into their own room, has Sharing Time, music, goes to classes. Primary is split into Senior and Junior & Nursery. Back in 2001 I was 1st Counselor in Primary, and only had at the most 8 children during the school year, and up to 22 including visitors during the summer, we kept all the children in Sharing Time, Music -then walk by two's outside the small Meetinghouse as our Wiggle Time, and the children split off into their class rooms when we returned inside the building. We did this rain or shine. In Oregon when it rains EVERY ONE wear appropriate out door clothing. In short we become Ducks and Swans!!  ;D Worked great!
 

libertygranny

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 122
  • Thanked: 110 times
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2018, 09:19:34 pm »
"When I was 8-12 back in 1960-1964, the Primary met in it's own room and had Sacrament passed to them there, while the adults remained in the Chapel to receive the Sacrament,  then we had a few 2 minute talks, plus our songs, then we were dismissed to our classes."

That was called Jr Sunday School, Primary met mid week in the late afternoon after school. No Sacrament was passed during Primary midweek meetings.

"Fast forward to 2002 and Primary age sits for the entire Sacrament time, partakes of the sacrament in the Chapel. When ALL the membership is dismissed - primary goes into their own room, has Sharing Time, music, goes to classes. Primary is split into Senior and Junior & Nursery. Back in 2001 I was 1st Counselor in Primary, and only had at the most 8 children during the school year, and up to 22 including visitors during the summer, we kept all the children in Sharing Time, Music -then walk by two's outside the small Meetinghouse as our Wiggle Time, and the children split off into their class rooms when we returned inside the building. We did this rain or shine. In Oregon when it rains EVERY ONE wear appropriate out door clothing. In short we become Ducks and Swans!!  ;D Worked great!"

The 3 hour block started in 1980/81. That is when they stopped having Primary midweek and was started to be held on Sundays during the 2nd and 3rd hours of Church.

I actually see the wisdom in having families stay together throughout  Sacrament meeting. I would hate for them to excuse the Primary kids to leave after the Sacrament is passed. If they did that in my ward there would be very few members left to listen to the talks because all the adults serving in Primary would also have to leave.
 
The following users thanked this post: dyany

Roper

  • Thousand Year Egg Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
  • Thanked: 1282 times
  • Country: us
  • Earning my spurs.
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2018, 10:37:18 pm »
* (A change I don't expect but would welcome? Rather than making Sacrament Meeting shorter, following the passing and partaking of the Sacrament as a family, release the Primary children to a sharing time while the remainder of the adults remain for the talks/sermons portion of the service. This is how many other churches handle Sunday Worship services - that the children are dismissed to Children's Church during the sermon portion. There is more chance of more people being edified with less 'young child wrangling' going on for an hour in the benches)
I really like attending sacrament meeting together as a family.  We're already apart for the other two meetings.  I've been to other churches' services with friends, and that arrangement just feels odd--disconnected. I think there's a lot of value in having Sacrament meeting where families worship and learn together.  At a church meeting in a grove in Nauvoo, the ushers were ready to remove a group of rowdy boys.  Joseph Smith said, "Let the boys alone. They may hear something they will never forget." I think there are a thousand other ways to improve the spirituality of our sacrament meetings rather than sending our children away. 
 
The following users thanked this post: Scruffydog, dyany, Jacarι

 

* Top Posters

Curelom
1344 Posts
Roper Roper
1141 Posts
dyany dyany
819 Posts
LMAshton LMAshton
677 Posts
N3uroTypical N3uroTypical
420 Posts

* Recent Posts

Re: JANA IS COMING WHERE? WHEN? by Iggy
[Today at 02:31:48 am]


Re: JANA IS COMING WHERE? WHEN? by Roper
[October 19, 2018, 07:47:50 pm]


Re: Cabin & Porch by Iggy
[October 19, 2018, 01:57:43 pm]


Re: Word Game #1 - Using Our "Nice Words" by AndrewR
[October 19, 2018, 09:13:59 am]


Re: Word Game #1 - Using Our "Nice Words" by Curelom
[October 19, 2018, 02:44:20 am]

* Board Statistics

  • stats Total Members: 108
  • stats Total Posts: 10495
  • stats Total Topics: 679
  • stats Total Categories: 6
  • stats Total Boards: 26
  • stats Most Online: 65

  • averages Average Posts: 11
  • averages Average Topics: 1
  • averages Average Members: 0
  • averages Average Online: 17

* Forum Staff

AndrewR_admin admin AndrewR_admin
Administrator
dyany admin dyany
Administrator
LMAshton admin LMAshton
Administrator

* Calendar

October 2018
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 [20]
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31

No calendar events were found.