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Author Topic: Predictions for the coming General Conference?  (Read 16424 times)

Taalcon

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #240 on: October 11, 2019, 12:55:37 pm »
Does that mean that I do not believe Sexual intercourse will be possible, or even needed? No. My belief is that the origins of Man/Woman on worlds is through such a method - Adam & Eve are the literal offspring of Heavenly Parents made "earthy".

So in this belief that you personally hold, and I take it you feel that this belief is more common, the key point of what I said still very much stands. Like exactly. In this view, a man still has sex with one of his wives to populate A world. Okay. So "Worlds Without Number". Is that the same wife for all of the worlds, or rotate with different wives?

Do you feel this position of yours would not raise the exact same concern and discomfort generated by the other? If not, why not?

(I think it's known that I accept the evidence of the biological evolution of humanity, and do not see it at all incompatible with the Restored Gospel. In fact, I think our doctrinal affirmations uniquely situate us among all of Christianity to consider and accept it).
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 01:02:07 pm by Taalcon »
 
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cook

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #241 on: October 11, 2019, 03:10:32 pm »
I'm not even sure about what exactly you mean, but all my 43 years in the church I've heard about God forming spirit children of the intelligence that existed. Never has sex been mentioned. I have always believed we don't know how it happens. But I haven't though of it being through sex either. I believe sex to be very earthly thing - with all the cells, fluids and all that. The purpose of it is unity. So I do think the spirit children are created by heavenly parents being united. I'm sure there is unity and processes of unity that exceed all our imagination and are so much better that sex. But what exactly that is, don't know. Obviously.

The only references I've heard about sex have always come from opponents of the church, joking around about mormon women being eternally pregnant.

Personally I don't have  problem with the thought of polygamy, especially in the after life. I would have a problem with in reality in this life, because of all my insecurities. I feel most of the rejection of polygamy comes from the fear that no man could treat all his wives equally. I believe the fear is accurate, no man could. The females I've talked about, the problem is not about sex, sharing the man sexually. The problem is sharing his attention (listening), his time and making sure one feels appreciated and valued. Many many women have the problem they don't feel they are the most important person and thing in their husbands life, as it is as the only wife. The problem would just multiply with many wives.

But if a woman feels discomfort about the polygamy in the after life, I'd think she'll feel it in thinking about sex (if she'd think about that) and about populating worlds with some other wives.

A few years back my husband taught institute class for the English speaking converts, mainly refugees or who had come over for some other reasons from various parts of the world. When the polygamy topic was on, he was a bit wondering about how to handle it. The lesson was rather short, because they were like "so, should we have a problem with it?" They all came from polygamous families and it was very natural for them.

I've followed some doscussions over the "sister wives" or something tv-series. The world has changed. It seems the only people who have a problem with polygamy are church members.
 
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Roper

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #242 on: October 11, 2019, 09:58:33 pm »
Eternal increase:  What if it IS some kind of sexual reproduction with resurrected eternal bodies throughout all eternity. Would that be so bad?  ;)  Procreation vs. adoption: I don't believe it's either/or. There's certainly room in our understanding for both/and. So much we don't know...which was Elder Oaks' exact point...
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #243 on: October 11, 2019, 11:49:03 pm »
Eternal increase:  What if it IS some kind of sexual reproduction with resurrected eternal bodies throughout all eternity. Would that be so bad?  ;)

The point always was, a man who is already plurally sealed telling a woman with a concern about having to sexually share her husband to essentially "don't worry about it" without acknowledging and validating the concern I don't think serves the purpose he likely intended.

I think having a woman, perhaps like Wendy Nelson who is also sealed to a man who is sealed to another woman, sharing her answers and perspectives would likely be more helpful and comforting, even if most of the content of the talks were the same. Sometimes the messenger changes the context.
 
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AndrewR

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #244 on: October 12, 2019, 03:33:39 am »
I think the thing we, as mortal being, simply do not understand it Eternity. Time becomes meaningless as a construct. As such "sharing" also become meaningless to an extent.

Mortal polygamy is certainly a sharing. There is only so much time, take out work, rest and play (and the odd Mars Bar) and there isn't much to go around.

But in the eternities?
Don't ask me, I only live here.
Nauvoodle since March 2005 #1412
 
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Roper

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #245 on: October 12, 2019, 09:25:24 am »
The point always was, a man who is already plurally sealed telling a woman with a concern about having to sexually share her husband...
He never said that. That was an interpretation by people with an axe to grind. It seems a lot of people are getting upset for somebody else they know nothing about.  What if the whole thing is a parable? (Yes, I know that's a stretch. Oaks usually doesn't teach using parables.) At any rate, Oaks' response is "Trust the Lord." I mean, come on. What else could he say? Oaks felt inspired to address it, knowing full well that people would pick it apart and criticize. They do it with every address he gives. Yet, he delivered the message he felt inspired to give. Nobody else addressed it. He did. He didn't dismiss it. He acknowledged it and he validated it with the only true response he could give. We don't get to choose the messenger. The Lord does.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 09:29:54 am by Roper »
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 

cook

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #246 on: October 12, 2019, 09:52:31 am »
Yes, and I totally listened to the message with different ears. My mother was born out of wedlock, never knew her father, but knew his name. She was excited about temple work, but at that time she could not be sealed to her parents because they were not married. It pained her to not be sealed to them and have that link to the rest of her ancestors. It was like an eternal burden on top of the mortal burden she had faced all her life.  (For her it had been a burden, she wasn't raised by her mother either etc). But she was never bitter about that or anything. She taught me her conviction and faith that in the eternities everything will be fine. Everything will be fixed in one way or another so that she will not miss any blessings and she will be as happy and content as possible, because that is life with God. Everything will be well.

And Elder Oaks testified of the same truth.
 
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JLM

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #247 on: October 12, 2019, 10:11:04 am »
As evidenced here, everyone's lived experience is different, so we need to be cautious in judging others by how they react to any particular GC talk. 
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #248 on: October 12, 2019, 10:18:16 am »
Quote
He never said that. That was an interpretation by people with an axe to grind.

You don't think that is a logical part and parcel of a woman who would go so far to send a letter voicing the concern of being required to share her house with her husband's other marriage partner?
 
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Roper

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #249 on: October 12, 2019, 01:12:23 pm »
No, I don't think that. In our history of polygamy, most polygamous relationships did NOT include sex with multiple partners. As evidenced by the discussion on this thread, there is not definitive conclusion if sex as we know it will even be a part of eternal life. All we have to go on is what was said. Everything else is assumption. Straw man arguments are a waste of time.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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Taalcon

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #250 on: October 12, 2019, 03:48:03 pm »
In our history of polygamy, most polygamous relationships did NOT include sex with multiple partners.

I'm... not sure... that's.... accurate.

Even the Gospel Topics essay on it in Utah talks about how much progeny resulted from it, and it notes 'building up seed' as one of the purposes it was instituted. Like ... I don't even know how to respond to someone claiming plural marriage mostly didn't involve sex with multiple partners for most of the history of it.

I mean ... so many Latter-day Saints can trace their history to a plural marriage, many to the same man, not always the same woman. And it wasn't often a serial situation. I get it not being an issue for you. But I'm honestly gobsmacked by this assertion.

Listen, I engaged in this part of the conversation not to rag on Oaks. There were those who didn't understand a concern, and suggested only those who had some nasty antagonistic agenda could have recieved it with anything other than a peaceful answer. I have tried to explain that perspective here.

I have not suggested anyone here who had a good response was wrong. The opposite, in fact. I have been trying to explain why some with different perspectives could have recieved it different than you did..
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 05:34:37 pm by Taalcon »
 
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dyany

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #251 on: October 12, 2019, 08:45:41 pm »
I'm gonna put my admin hat on here, as I have noticed that we (including me) have taken a long-standing tradition thread and turned it into a semi-intense discussion about certain specific things, rather than the lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek predictions we generally have in this thread. I'm going to ask that we split off the discussion about polygamy/Oaks' talk into another thread.
 
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Roper

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #252 on: October 13, 2019, 10:41:57 am »
Thanks, Dyany. I'll put my response in another thread.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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pnr

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #253 on: October 13, 2019, 03:17:34 pm »
I once thought that our Heavenly Parents created us through sexual means, but I can now see that would be impossible.   Jesus Christ got His mortality from Mary, also mortal.   Because He was the only begotten son of God in the flesh, He got his ability to lay down his life in sacrifice and take it up again.    If our Heavenly Parents created us as spirit children the way mortals create mortal children, we would all have come to earth with all of their divine natures, and that would not have made our testing perfect for us.
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
 

Taalcon

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Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« Reply #254 on: October 13, 2019, 03:45:18 pm »
I predict next conference will be a Very Special Musical Episode, where all talks are song in rhyme.
 
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