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Author Topic: Hate crime or "well, let's not jump to conclusions"?  (Read 582 times)

JLM

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Re: Hate crime or "well, let's not jump to conclusions"?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 09:58:41 am »
Curlom, the path you suggest is dangerous. Intent is at the very root of criminality. What you are suggesting would make no distinction between a driver who kills a pedestrian because they hit black ice or intentionally steered into the person. Someone who deliberately steps onto someone elses property would be equally guilty of trespass as someone who was pushed. A man having a seizure whose uncontrolled arms hit soneone would be guilty of assault. Self defense would not be an exception. Accidentally grabbing the wrong suitcase would be larceny.  No Curelom, with a few minor exceptions intent to do harm is at the very heart of criminal law.
 

Roper

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Re: Hate crime or "well, let's not jump to conclusions"?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 10:16:33 am »
I believe Curelom was making the point that hate is similar to or part of intent and that intent is an important part of determining crime and punishment. She was making an argument by example--showing that if we don't consider intent, then the consequences are ridiculous. And since hate is similar to or part of intent, it is equally to ridiculous to remove hate as a consideration. She wasn't advocating to remove intent. I understand the argument. I agree with the argument in some ways. My concern about the growing trend of punishing people for their thoughts outweighs my acknowledgement of the analogy. While hate can definitely motivate a person's intent to commit a crime, hate is distinctly different from intent. People can hate others (because of race, religion, culture, etc.) without intentionally acting to hurt them. I'm not in support of punishing people for their thoughts.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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JLM

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Re: Hate crime or "well, let's not jump to conclusions"?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 08:17:51 pm »
My apologies.  After a re-read of Curelom’s post, she is clearly being facetiously ironic to convey the absurdity of Jason’s prior argument. I need to be more attentive when reading on my tiny phone screen. 

 

Jason

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Re: Hate crime or "well, let's not jump to conclusions"?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2021, 11:50:54 pm »
My apologies.  After a re-read of Curelom’s post, she is clearly being facetiously ironic to convey the absurdity of Jason’s prior argument. I need to be more attentive when reading on my tiny phone screen.
I believe Curelom had quoted Roper, not me. Roper's arguments are NOT [edited] necessarily absurd, as he is quoting the Book of Mormon for punishing crimes rather than beliefs.

It is interesting in that they are exploring whether hate and intent are separate issues in crimes. I think it is apt to apply a "hate crime" enhancement to a crime that was meant to deliver a terroristic message to a particular community. An inter-racial crime is not necessarily a hate crime simply because of different races being involved. Intent to spread fear among a group should be one of the main factors in determining if it is a hate crime.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 01:54:26 pm by Jason »
 

Roper

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Re: Hate crime or "well, let's not jump to conclusions"?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2021, 11:54:07 am »
We already have a definition of using violence to create fear. It's terrorism.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 

 


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