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Author Topic: Cancel Culture  (Read 482 times)

Taalcon

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2021, 12:11:37 pm »
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I'll also point out liberal hypocrisy and inconsistencies when I see them.  Recent example: Disney fired Gina Carano for drawing an analogy between the current political climate in the US with Nazi Germany, but was silent when Pedro Pascal did the same thing, just in the opposite direction.

There's a lot that Disney et al do that I don't agree with, but this situation is a bit more complicated. She was not fired for that tweet. She was fired for a pattern and string of online behavior she had been a) specifically asked to stop if she wished to remain employed, and b) to specifically apologize for a specific action she had taken which was widely taken as an insulting mocking of a group. She didn't do that, was taken off the marketing circuit, and still continued the pattern of public posts she was repeatedly asked to refrain from while employed by them. She promoted false and dangerous Covid narratives. She posted additional memes with anti-Semitic history. She claimed she didn't know its history, but kept it up so she wouldn't appear to be 'bowing to the mob'. She didn't comply with her employers' requests. The last tweet where she tried to draw a connection between the treatment of american Conservatives and Holocaust victims was the final straw.

Her co-star did a tweet two years priot comparing the government rounding up people and putting them in cages to ... a government putting people in cages. It was a one-off, and not a pattern of continuous provocative behavior targetting groups of people, and posting politically charged disinformation, and regularly mocking groups of individuals.

The way it's tried to be tied to two two-year-apart tweets from two different people under very different circumstances and patterns of behavior isn't helpful, and is disengenuous.

I'm a geek, and am more familiar than I should be about what's been going on in Star Wars fandom online for years. When Gina Carano's character was first introduced, many Right Wingers HATED her, and claimed her character was just another Feminist Liberal Takeover of Disney. It wasn't until people started becoming aware of her provokative online posts pushing Covid falsehoods, as well as other offensive stereotyping memes that she suddenly became a Right Wing Hero from those who at first trashed her existence in Star Wars.

So no, she wasn't 'cancelled' for a Tweet. She chose to regularly and consistently go against her employers wishes in continuing provocative behavior, and immediately became a Right Wing media darling and picked up a job working for people who now see her as a hero.

She's fine.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 05:55:13 pm by Taalcon »
 
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Hobbes

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2021, 02:24:12 pm »
I do have issues with "cancel culture", which is a nebulous, free-floating term and tends to mean whatever the speaker wants in the moment. So it's built to be gray area, and it seems like it always comes down to a case-by-case. Taalcon's explanation above is a good example of how it's easy to look like a mob of partisans forcing those they disagree with out of the public square, but digging down there's actually a lot more going on.

  • Who is being "canceled"
  • What are they being cancelled from?
  • Who is doing the cancelling?
  • Why are they being cancelled?

Just a few of the factors.

Let's pretend a woman online says she doesn't think transgender women are really women and that it's affront to people like her who have suffered as a result of their gender. A large group of people call for her to lose her livelihood.

Appropriate? My read: probably not.

Turns out the woman is JK Rowling, a literal billionaire with a huge following (who thus can really impact how transgender men and women are treated) and many millions of fans. Who can only be "cancelled" if you manage to convince all those 10s of millions of people it's worth it to stop appreciating Harry Potter related material because she's so wrong about what she said. Suddenly, probably appropriate. She'll be fine, and the worst case scenario for her is that she has to be content with the billions she has and won't get to make more. And that only happens if the whole world agrees what she did is bad enough to stop liking her work in which case: we all kind of agree as a society, right? Plus, the harm she's doing is probably real, and not perceived or too minor to be worth bothering about.

There are example that go the other way. But by their very nature they aren't well known. A researcher who honestly publishes research that does not support a group's idea of how the world should work gets canned by his employer to avoid the potential for backlash. A news organization fires or fails to renew the contract of employees who have said negative things about a politician with which a large portion of its audience is enamoured.

In general, it seems when it comes to high-profile cases of supposed "cancel culture" there are a lot more threats than reality. Just look to our former president who seemed to be trying to cancel a new person or group everyday. Yet most of those cancelations never came to be.

In the meantime, how do you treat your own actions? If you found that a corporation's CEO gave heavily to an anti-Mormon cause would you think that no-longer patronizing that corporation was a stand for your beliefs and your rights, or part of toxic cancel culture? How would others view it? If you found out an intern at work held and publicly proclaimed extreme, anti-Mormon views would you want her fired? Assuming the answer to that is "no", how would you feel if instead of being an intern, she were your boss and in charge of your promotions and raises? How would you feel if she declared that no LDS person is worthy to partake in our society and your company decided it was still fine for her to be your boss and determine your work assignments?

I think it is tough. There's some obvious cases of inappropriate reactions that may be minor in the grand scheme of humanity but are very major in the individual lives of the people impacted (the original example to me when it comes to online stuff is the woman who posted a joke whose premise was in support of poorer nations and against racism, but which a bunch of humorless idiots decided meant the opposite and had her fired in under a day and unemployable in her field). Yet it feels more to me not that we're in a new age of "cancel culture" but one in which accountability now happens in a more transparent way for a very few, normally elite people. And thus it's more obvious what's happening (again, to those more famous people) and easier to see when that goes wrong or is perceived to go wrong.
 
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N3uroTypical

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2021, 04:55:49 pm »
She was not fired for that tweet. She was fired for a pattern and string of online behavior she had been a) specifically asked to stop if she wished to remain employed, and b) to specifically apologize for a specific action she had taken which was widely taken as an insulting mocking of a group.
Fair enough.  So, an apt comparison would be her tweet history and Pedro Pascal's tweet history.  I slogged through enough of Pedro's foul-mouthed tweets, full his own and retweeted politics, to figure it's a decent comparison.  You're welcome to do it as well, if you're interested.  https://twitter.com/PedroPascal1

So yeah, liberal hypocrisy.  You can be a loudmouthed jerk on twitter, as long as you're yelling about black disenfranchisement, Biden reversing Trump's transgender ban, opining about why we'd be better off if President Trump just didn't have the secret service protecting him, etc.   Be a loudmouthed right wing jerk though, and you're warned, told to shut up, and eventually fired.

Should we look into Mandalorian's other cast members' twitter history to see if there's more blatant double-standard?

What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 

N3uroTypical

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2021, 05:01:35 pm »
I probably won't point out liberal hypocrisy, because there is just as much conservative hypocrisy, and well...what's the point? It detracts from working together to solve real problems.

Also Roper:
Quote
Most conservatives are free market champions, as long as they're making money in the market. When the market reacts to their abuses, then suddenly they're complaining about "cancel culture."  My response is, "Shut up. This is your system. You want something different? Go talk to Bernie."

Your response must be some advanced form of "working together to solve real problems" that I'm too dense to understand.   ;)
What-about-ism is pointless. I like to think most people's responses to such arguments would be, "Yup. That person, who happened to wear the same political jersey I do/did, was totally wrong on that, too."
-Taalcon
 

 


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