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Author Topic: returning to meetings in the chapel.  (Read 3709 times)

Palmon

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2020, 05:05:15 pm »
I think lack of understanding unless it happens to you is one of those human traits that we all are guilty of and is one that we are all suppose to overcome so that we can carry or at least share the burdens of those suffering. Laurie, if you haven't written and expressed your experiences to the primary (not Primary) leaders of the church - you should. Perhaps they need to hear your experience.

Dyany, I am sorry that you are struggling and don't feel supported by your local unit.

Although this is not the same, it caused me to reflect on current circumstances: On Sunday my husband and I watch 17 Miracles, which is a story of the Willie Martin
Handcart Company. Before the immigrants even left England, many were feeling uneasy with the journey. At one point, a man named Levi Savage stood and warned the saints that this journey was dangerous and unwise due to the late start. And for this, he was called out in front of all the company.  The company voted to go forward. As a result, they suffered terribly and nearly 20% of them died on route. During the oddessey, they were blessed with blessings beyond imagination. Would they have been blessed as much if they had waited until the next season? Or did their actions put them in situations where they needed their faith more and needed to rely on the Lord more fully?

Are we like the handcart company? Are some of us more aware of the dangers we face? I can see that many of us could suffer and maybe die because of the choices we've made. Maybe our suffering will be such that it causes us to pray more and strive more dilligently to be faithful and closer to God. Maybe, in this day, we need our Levi Savages too - those that stand up and warn us. Perhaps that is you, Dyany.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 05:47:27 pm by Palmon »
 

Jana at Jade House

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2020, 06:09:12 pm »
In August our ward tried to have a 30 minute  meeting.  masks on servers. no singing. distancing.  no bathroom, no kitchen. no classes.  There was such a lack of response they ditched the plan.

Sunday they will try it again.  I will not attend. no bathrooms.  I travel 30 minutes to sit 30 minutes to travel 30 more minutes. in the morning.  I need a loo.

however last Sunday for the very first time ever, my ministering bro asked me if  he could serve Sacrament at home. before this I had to ask.  It blew Crowgirl away when I mentioned his lack of Sunday clothes...hahaha.  This time he brought his wife who is my ministering sister.  She checked in once since March. 

Whomever thought ministering was going to encourage people to serve does not know my church units here.  I n a time like this I honestly stupidly thought people would rise to the occasion and check in, even a phone call or text. 

I am so entirely glad I do not depend on my unit for any support.  Even the bishop has only showed his face twice since March.   The Antwerp Stake however is doing a marvelous job, as is Scruffydog and his folk.

Our numbers are unstable so I do not care what regs are in place. my mask and I are taking no chances.  People here have pandemic laxity.  It is a little frightening.
 
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TurkeyLurker

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2020, 06:15:21 pm »
...  I need a loo.

I hear ya on that.  Our stake has the bathrooms open (finally), but not the drinking fountains.  LOL    Back when the bathroom was blocked off, I just plowed in there anyway.  I'm kind of a jerk that way.

 I did the whole sacrament service with a mask on, but I slipped it off my mouth to say the prayer.  Sorry, not gonna yell that.  The SP was on the stand, and I didn't get a talking to, so I guess my temple recommend is still valid?  Usually I am just a passer, but I got recruited to bless for the first time in about 5 years that week.
 
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Jen

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2020, 11:18:27 am »
I'm lying here breathing through some pretty significant anxiety. I was told this week that our ward would go back to singing in church, and to please choose hymns (I'm forever the organist). I don't think it's safe or wise. My ward is not careful.

This morning I got a text to choose different hymns, because our meeting today will be a farewell for 2 missionaries. So now we're singing, and there will be extra people here from who knows where. In the meantime, numbers here are inching back up. Deaths haven't dropped. Our county has the highest spread in the state.

I'm so tired of being the dissenting voice. The one to speak out in concern about questionable things happening in the ward. But now I'm worried about an actual super spreader event happening and I'm committed to being there, so maybe I'll be bringing this virus home to my family, including my husband who is higher risk.
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2020, 11:58:53 am »
Jen, what a choice. I would say no. too bad for them.  I am not planning on a hospital stay for me or mine anytime soon.  They can play audio tapes,
 
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Palmon

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2020, 12:35:52 pm »
Simply explain you are not comfortable with the meetings and that for the sake of you family’s health, you will not yet be returning to meetings in the chapel.  This is no a case of being committed to playing the piano. Tapes or other people are always available.  It’s a case of YOU doing what you feel inspired to do.  Right now, different people will have different inspiration about returning to church, which is to be expected as we all are in different situations.
 
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Jana at Jade House

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2020, 01:14:43 pm »
Palmon is kinder than I am.
 
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Jen

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2020, 02:35:54 pm »
Chapel is full, maybe one in six people wearing masks, one person in the congregation is coughing, and we're singing. And I'm sitting up here in my N95 wondering if I'm the crazy one.

Am I? I really have to wonder. Everyone around me seems to be living life as usual and my family is hunkered down at home.
 
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GoodyScrivener

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2020, 03:04:19 pm »
in my outside opinion, Jen. No you are NOT the crazy one. Except maybe being crazy for having shown up today after all.

All those people in the packed chapel not wearing masks are the crazy ones.  The ones in the packed chapel who are wearing masks are borderline.


My ward started having limited-access in-person sacrament meetings a couple weeks ago. They're finally also going to start broadcasting weekly meetings, including resuming Sunday school and auxiliaries.  At some point in the relatively near future. When they figure out the tech.
 
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Jason

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2020, 04:51:13 pm »
If I were worried, I would not attend. The gospel principle of greater love hath no man than to give his life for someone else does not apply in this situation.

If your N95 is properly fitted, and you follow all of the other mask wearing procedures, like not touching or readjusting it, washing hands, sanitizing the mask at appropriate times, then you should be relatively well protected. N95s are not nearly as good as powered respirators. And none of those are as effective as not being there in the first place. Kind of like abstinence is the best way to protect against pregnancy and STDs, despite the other okay options available.
 
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LMAshton

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2020, 10:44:30 am »
Jen, you're not crazy. And they are not entitled to you risking your health just so they can have in-person music. Like Jana said, they can play CDs. Or, if worse comes to worse, they can sing acapella. That is, if they must sing.

Personally, even if I were well enough to go, I wouldn't go. This is risky behavior.
 
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Taalcon

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2020, 11:07:28 am »
Chapel is full, maybe one in six people wearing masks, one person in the congregation is coughing, and we're singing. And I'm sitting up here in my N95 wondering if I'm the crazy one.

Am I? I really have to wonder. Everyone around me seems to be living life as usual and my family is hunkered down at home.

As a mostly hunkered down family with no intentions of attending in-person Church prior to a vaccine due to family members being in high risk groups - I feel this very strongly. Especially since many members of our our ward are very vocal in how they think everything about any precautions about this virus are nonsense.
 
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pnr

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2020, 06:22:16 pm »
Our stake is returning in 150 people when the state is still 50, but no singing and all masks, and specific okays to stay home for anyone who feels uncomfortable, anyone who is high risk or older than 60, and forbidding anyone who is sick or slightly sick or thinks they could be sick or has been around anyone who has any flu or covid symptoms, with liberal permission for home sacrament.


I would just say no when you cannot support the choices that are being made for yourself or those you will go home to.  It is okay to do that, even if no one else approves of that and even if you are denied sacrament home permission.
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
 
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Curelom

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #88 on: September 22, 2020, 02:51:18 am »
Chapel is full, maybe one in six people wearing masks, one person in the congregation is coughing, and we're singing. And I'm sitting up here in my N95 wondering if I'm the crazy one.

In that situation, I’m afraid I would have to pass a note to the person conducting saying that due to health concern & my perception that it was risky to be there, I was sorry to have to excuse myself. With apologies, of course, & ending with “I hope you understand,” then slipping out as inconspicuously as possible. Followed up with a call or e-mail explaining that ("as you know" - if I have reason to believe they should) I have vulnerable family members & cannot risk infecting them, & if I feel assured that health measures will be followed in church, I will be glad to come back & play the organ (or whatever).

The Archbishop of San Francisco held a big protest on Sunday. Several hundred Catholics gathered at churches & marched to City Hall Plaza for a rally, then on to the cathedral where the Archbishop held Mass on the outdoor courtyard. He demanded that the city ease the rules on religious services, which allow outdoor gatherings of 50 or less & one person inside a church at a time for prayer, meditation, etc.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/SF-archbishop-protest-Catholic-march-covid-15584389.php

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/09/20/hundreds-of-catholics-gather-in-san-francisco-to-decry-covid-19-limits-on-worship/

https://catholic-sf.org/news/archbishop-cordileone-san-francisco-mass-restrictions-mocking-god

California is more cautious about public health than many other states. S.F. is more restrictive than the state, & with a population of about 850,000 in a city of 50 square miles, who could blame them for being concerned?

The Archbishop has some valid points. Religion isn’t being treated the same as everyone else. Stores & restaurants can have guests in based on square footage or % of normal capacity, so it isn’t equitable to limit a church with a 2,500-square foot interior to one person inside at a time. Outdoor dining has been going on for weeks in S.F. & other counties, & I see some pics where safe distancing doesn’t exist. When you’re dining, no one has a mask on & everyone is chatting, one of the things we’re told spread the virus. In most of the Bay Area & even S.F., gyms, yoga studios, hair, nail, & tattoo salons can open with strict limitations (masks, distancing, limited #, no group classes). So it does look like churches are not getting the same treatment.

OTOH, in church, the same people sit in the same space for a prolonged time, not circulating in & out as at a mall or store. They sing, chant, read aloud, & preach, which raise the rate & volume of inhaling & exhaling over normal speech. Depending on the ventilation, cooties may hang around. IINM, in Catholic churches, worshippers file up to the altar & the priest holds communion bread to their lips, which seems like a fabulous way to infect people. That may have changed. Many churches pass collection plates, & of course most have hymnals, scriptures, or prayer books that anyone can pick up. Some of these conditions are similar to ones in any business where cooties might live on door handles, elevator buttons, counter tops, touch screens, etc.

Folks in the Bay Area seem more diligent than in some parts of the U.S. about protecting themselves & those around them. Masks are close to universal from what I routinely see (well, except for dining). Of course we gripe, but there isn’t mass insurrection pitting “freedoms” or “individual rights” against a little thing we are directed to do that might help protect everyone (& isn't that the basis of most laws, from littering to DUI?) The majority of cathedral worshippers seemed to have masks, & they’d probably heed the Archbishop’s advice to take precautions if it meant RL worship could resume sooner. From what I see on this thread, we have some Saints who are so blessed & privileged to have RL worship again, something many of us still don't, & they are not that diligent, or don’t care much, or truly believe in some “right” that allows them to potentially risk other people's health. I hope & pray they don’t cause new infections with more pain & trouble for the people they live near, shop from, see at the bus stop or library, have kids’ play days with, & supposedly care about.
 

Palmon

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Re: returning to meetings in the chapel.
« Reply #89 on: September 22, 2020, 05:47:56 pm »
Our branch just resumed meetings this past Sunday, attendance is according the the first letter in your last name. So it'll be once a month, with the meetings broadcast via zoom for those at home.

My husband and I won't be going for a while because I'm having a minor surgery next month, plus because of age, obesity and asthma am a high risk.

Anyway, we had a chat with our branch president about how the sacrament meeting went. He made the comment that it was really nice to meet with others and feel their spirits. How uplifting it was to have the sacrament, hear the speaker and sing together. We laughed a bit about how the singing sounded muffled by the masks but he made the point that we at least hear ourselves.

I know that most of you are really upset with the return of meeting in the chapel. Many of you feel endangered. But there is also another side: there are some that need that meeting. They are in extreme need of the spiritual boast that comes with worshipping together.

I'm glad that I am not responsible for making these decisions. No matter what is decided, how inspired the decision making process is - there will be people who are angry, frustrated and fearful.

I think that the only answer is for each member to pray for peace and inspiration about whether they should attend church services. And then accept that others won't get the same answer as yours.
 
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