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JLM

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2020, 05:57:03 pm »
So I read the actual transcript of the speach... and yeah.... It's pretty bad.  Just a few paragraphs in and he is demonizing, dividing and denigrating all kinds of American citizens.  Also "far left fascism"?  Be definition, fascism is far right.  The guy has no clue whay he is talking about.

I found this line highly ironic. 

Quote
We are proud of the fact — (applause) — that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and we understand — (applause) — that these values have dramatically advanced the cause of peace and justice throughout the world. 

The man wouldn't know a Christian value if it hit him on the head.  Feed the hungry?  Clothe the naked?  Heal the sick?  Welcome the stranger?  Nah.  We'll cut food programs, put tarrifs on clothing, ignore a global pandemic and close our borders.  What a total total complete and utter liar and hypocrite.

The sooner we can get that man child off undeserved soapbox the better.

 
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Curelom

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2020, 03:08:07 am »
I get that this will be sort of a hit and run:  I don't have the stomache for this thread.

I get it. None of us like it. I hate that such a thread is necessary, & I'm sure others do too. We wish with all our hearts that we could look to a unifying person who would inspired confidence & optimism in the American people. We've had such presidents in the past & we will again, America will be America again because America is the people & our way of government, & no individual is going to destroy that or corrupt it for his/her own purposes as long as this country has good public-spirited people.

Meanwhile, mixed messages continue from Washington.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-now-in-open-dispute-with-health-officials-as-virus-rages/ar-BB16uPq5?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

ETA on July 16. And I might add, I DID read the full speech. I had read it before posting earlier about magical thinking or being delusional. Nothing I saw in the Rushmore performance would have changed my mind no matter when I read it. I saw inflammatory, belligerent, confrontational noise directed to his select audience, when what America needs now is the opposite. The more he is found to be in error, the more he digs in his heels, whines about being persecuted, & lashes out at the nearest target, including the Supreme Court or Dr. Fauci. Where are the adults when we need them so badly?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 09:32:10 am by Curelom »
 
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Roper

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2020, 09:34:17 am »
Our Founding Fathers had deep and profound political differences on just about every aspect of our new country. Underneath all of that was a fierce commitment to America. That's what's lacking in the leaders of both political parties. It's evident in their own words and actions. Yes, media loyal to both parties will spin everything to lionize the leader on their side and demonize the leader on the other side. When I examine the actual words and actions of Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, and William Barr, and also of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, I find only greed and ambition. Not compromise. Not mutual respect even though they disagree. Not civil servants giving their best for the American people. They are narcissists to their core. They preserve their positions by using hatred and deception to unite their supporters against those who think and choose and live differently. Well, we are not loyal subjects in Donald Trump's kingdom. We are not unthinking peasants in Nancy Pelosi's fiefdom. Our founding fathers declared that "WE the people," with all our differences, make America.

"It's been a long hard ride, got a ways to go
But this is still the place that we all call home"

"Home" by Dierks Bentley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJoZiB-UGY
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 09:52:17 am by Roper »
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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JLM

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2020, 10:26:07 am »
Term limits for all!

Pres: 2 terms
House: 5 terms
Senate: 2 terms
SCOTUS: 20 years
 
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dyany

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2020, 11:35:06 am »
My thing about term limits has always been this:
PoTUS limits are fine; they were set long before my time and he's enough of a powerful person and enough of our face to the world that this is just as well.

But for congress and local leaders: they represent us. If they are corrupt, indolent, specious, and all kinds of evil, they STILL REPRESENT US. If we as a people are too lazy, stupid, weak, and easily controlled to vote them out, then we absolutely deserve what we get. Does that mean the minority of good people suffer? Yes, as it has ever been in the history of the world. The fault lies with us, not just the ignorant and selfish voters, but also the apathetic and lazy people who won't research and vote. It's not enough to not be evil. We can't be idle, either. If we are either, which clearly the vast majority of us are, we deserve what we get.
 
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Curelom

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2020, 09:38:15 am »
Why did my state get no help from Washington & have to import COVID test kits from overseas?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/maryland-s-gop-governor-why-didn-t-trump-help-my-state-with-coronavirus-testing/ar-BB16OXkN?ocid=msedgntp

America left to save itself, one mayor, school superintendent, or department store chain at a time.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-trump-refuses-to-lead-america-tries-to-save-itself/ar-BB16NNMf?ocid=msedgntp

Not a radical moon-bat who is easy to accuse of being a hysterical anti-Trumper, but the one-time manager of John McCain’s presidential campaign.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/politics/steve-schmidt-donald-trump/index.html


 
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Curelom

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2020, 02:19:05 am »
“The president got bored with it,” David Carney, an adviser to the Texas governor, Greg Abbott, a Republican, said of the pandemic.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/As-Trump-Ignores-Virus-Crisis-Republicans-Start-15419146.php

President Lincoln stuck it out for 4 years as Americans killed Americans in a war that nearly wrecked the Union. President Roosevelt stuck it out through the Great Depression, the effort to buoy up Great Britain while avoiding war, & then 4 years of a war we would have had to enter anyway, which without us might have destroyed civilization as we know it & the hopes of all free people. Their lives were both shortened because of their service as President. Adults do what adults gotta do, & the first thing they gotta do is be adults & be responsible whether they want to or not (especially if they demanded the job), & finish what they started.
 
And now we have a “president” who 6 months into arguably the worst global crisis since WWII, is “bored,” & rather than be an adult, keeps lying, shirking, arguing, whining, contradicting not only known experts but himself, & refusing to accept responsibility. Remember “the American carnage stops right now”? Well, here we are, with a plague still raging that has already killed the equivalent of Savannah or Syracuse.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Virus-is-crushing-United-States-15419073.php

I read someplace, maybe in some blog post, that the U.S. has more Nobel Laureates than any 5 other countries. So I checked, & this is what we have: almost 3x as many as Great Britain, & more than the next 10, Germany, France, Sweden, Russia, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Austria, The Netherlands, & Italy combined. The Salk & Sabin vaccines & linear accelerator were developed here. No other nation has put humans on the moon. In my own memory, for decades, the U.S. was the world leader in scientific research, technology, & application. Now we’re a step above some third-world "****hole countries" & worse off than many.

Then there is this, in case anyone has forgotten. A few months ago we were told not to worry, there will be a gap in the summer to give us some breathing room before flu season. Guess who squandered that time cushion. 

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/covid-and-flu-season-are-set-to-collide-and-experts-fear-disaster

To make it all worse, while our people are medically, emotionally, & economically battered by a plague that didn’t have to sicken nearly 4,000,000 of us & kill 143,000+ (so far), the “president” keeps pushing us apart by defending a symbol of slavery, treason, & armed revolt against the United States. He says it’s about “Southern pride," not racism or slavery, but who is he fooling, about either the flag’s symbolism or his sympathies? Our political system is at fault for giving us a racist-friendly Potus who glorifies insurgents who killed Americans, but that dirt has no place in public life.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-people-who-love-confederate-flag-not-thinking-about-slavery-2020-7

I know God wants me to love my neighbor, & Trump is my neighbor, & I’m really trying. But every time I see or hear him, I have to ask God to forgive me for what I think. At least I recognize I do that & I’m trying not to. If he threw COVID kooties at me, I could forgive him, but it isn’t my place to forgive him for what he has done to my country & its people. That’s up to the entire American people, & to history, & to God if he even acknowledges a God who is greater than he is.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 03:36:45 am by Curelom »
 

pnr

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2020, 05:01:32 pm »
I dare those who see Trump as the incarnation of evil (or moderate descriptions along the same lines) to read/listen to "The 21 Biggest Lies about Donald Trump (and you!)"  before finalize your vote this year.
 The 21 Biggest Lies about Donald Trump (and you!) https://www.amazon.com/Biggest-Lies-about-Donald-Trump/dp/1684510783
Nauvoo 1270, Feb 2005
 

Roper

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2020, 06:52:35 pm »
I'm not going to take your dare because: 1) Kurt Schlichter makes a living by demonizing all things democratic and by appearing regularly on Fox news to do more...well...demonizing. He is 180 degrees out from objectivity. 2) I already have a pretty good read on the thousands of lies Trump has told from non-partisan patriotic fact checkers. 3) Didn't vote for him the first time because I already knew he was an amoral narcissist who was Bad For America. And I won't vote for him this time around, either, because he has only become more amoral, if that's possible. 4) I don't have time to read fascist propaganda. I'm doing everything I can in my sphere of influence to mitigate the real damage Trump has done to my community.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 06:54:16 pm by Roper »
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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Sparky

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2020, 07:58:03 pm »
Roper, was it really necessary to call it fascist propaganda. Propaganda wouldn't be enough? Such adjectives, in my opinion, do not help your comment. It's a word laden with negative meaning that is used, in my experience, to stop civil debate and conversation.
 
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Roper

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2020, 10:33:11 pm »
"Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy." When I evaluate what the Trump administration has actually done over the past three-and-a-half years, I stand by my choice of words. I'm done tiptoeing around Trump's abuses of power and his relentless attacks against the very foundation of America--a country which I have served and sacrificed for. I'm done holding my tongue for fear that I might offend somebody because I dared to claim that the Emperor has no clothes. No. I meant exactly what I said. I have no ill will toward any of our members here in Nauvoo. I think this is one of the finest groups I have ever had the honor of associating with. I won't disparage or condemn my friends here. I also won't stay silent while the cancer of the Trump administration eats away at the heart of the country I love.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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Jason

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2020, 12:52:24 am »
By that definition I do not see any overwhelming evidence that Trump is a fascist. I actually see more evidence to the contrary.

Probably the biggest example is that a fascist would have jumped to consolidate federal power during the Coronavirus pandemic response. The Trump approach was a federalist approach, allowing the states to tailor their approaches for their regions.

Next example. He didn't nationalize businesses, but instead worked with them with incentives to get things done (masks, ventilators). His executive orders have cut regulations on businesses, rather than forcing them to follow his will.

Next example, Trump doesn't like much of the media's the media's portrayal of him. He bashes them, sometimes accurately calling them out. Sometimes just calling them out as a rhetorical device to divert attention from unfavorable stories. Yet he has not used any federal power to suppress opposition news outlets (which is most of them). A fascist would have forcibly suppressed the press a long time ago.

Final example. Trump has forced through almost none of his agenda. He signs most pork laden bills that come to him. Most of his executive orders have cut federal power, rather than consolidating it.

There are many things that president Trump could be labeled, but I do not believe that fascist is accurate.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 12:59:40 am by Jason »
 
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Curelom

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2020, 02:54:18 am »
There is widespread speculation about whether Trump will leave office amicably if he loses the election. He himself has made suggestive & provocative comments about whether or not he will accept the decision of the American people.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/3/21257133/trump-2020-election-meltdown-lawrence-douglas

https://time.com/5868739/trump-election-results-chris-wallace/
 
But when the shoe is on a different foot … LOL!!!  🤣 🤣 🤣

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/31/white-house-condemns-hong-kong-election-delay-389504
 

Roper

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2020, 11:38:22 am »
I'm not the only one who thinks that Trump's actions warrant use of the "F word."

Stephen Calabresi, co-founder of the Federalist Society, said it in response to Trump's suggestion about delaying the election:

Quote
“Until recently, I had taken as political hyperbole the Democrats’ assertion that President Trump is a fascist,” Calabresi wrote in an op-ed for the New York Times. “But this latest tweet is fascistic and is itself grounds for the president’s immediate impeachment again by the House of Representatives and his removal from office by the Senate.” ... Calabresi called on every Republican in Congress to tell Trump he can’t postpone the election. Otherwise, he said they “should never be elected to Congress again.”

Read the entire article at Fox News:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federalist-trump-tweet-election-delay-impeachment

It's worth noting that the Federalist Society champions conservative politics and consistently supports Republican elected officials, including the Trump administration.
All grown-ups were once children...but only few of them remember it. ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, "The Little Prince."
 
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Curelom

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Re: A Modest Prediction
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2020, 03:04:07 pm »
Indeed, didn't the Federalist Society champion some of the recent conservative Supreme Court nominees?

In an ideal world, I can see where the political labels of "conservative" or "liberal" would apply less than they do now in some people's minds to interpretation of the Constitution.

I don't see that being a strict interpretationist HAS to be the hallmark of a political conservative (or even a right-winger, the less friendly term for an extreme conservative). Nor do I see that being a political liberal (or even a left-winger, the equally impolite word on the other end of the spectrum) necessarily means someone HAS to go wild in being a liberal interpretationist. Nor do I think it's healthy for diligent deliberation of the law to have a super-majority of any POV on the Supreme Court. The highest court in the land is the last place where any faction, right or left, should be able to prevail strictly by numbers, which is another word for brute force.

Like the scriptures, the Constitution was written at a certain time in history, when its authors had only their own perspective, based on the knowledge & experiences available to them, to guide them. They did a remarkable job, like the ancient prophets. But I doubt they meant for their words to be taken literally, one at a time, & parsed to bits under a microscope. I think they intended to give us a guide to how we should govern ourselves, with the words they wrote open to careful interpretation as time went on & our national circumstances changed. They may or may not have seen our national demographics change as well, which has often made Constitutional amendments or other changes in the law necessary. For instance, we no longer consider any person to be three-fifths of a citizen, nor do we consider women incompetent to vote. How many other simple acknowledgments of basic right & wrong would never have happened if every judge had insisted on the strictest interpretations of existing law?

As for the F-word & the N-word, I think we sometimes use them rhetorically & hyperbolically, but they often do fit. I’m not going to say where they fit right this minute, but I can see places where, if they don’t fit, they are very, very, very close. Did Thomas Jefferson say that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty? We had a monarch back in his day, & we need to maintain vigilance if we don’t want to have one again.
 
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