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Messages - Patty Rain

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News of the Church / Re: Change In Ceremonial Temple Clothing
« on: January 24, 2020, 08:26:37 pm »
I asked my wife. Here's what she said: "If I'm obviously struggling with part of the clothing, and nobody around me helps, and they just all sit down or stand there, I would be pretty resentful."

Sigh. What a minefield. I think I'll have to go with the default "Follow the Spirit." If I get it wrong, hopefully others will be merciful.

I wouldn't be resentful, but if it was obvious I was struggling I would appreciate it. In my younger years, not so much, but now I tend to by choice just assume people are being loving and helpful in the temple.

It is really tough as you say. You just never know how someone feel.

I'm reminded that even I don't know how I'll feel sometimes. I've spent time in the south and have been called sweetie or honey etc and it never phased me. Then one day a waiter called me something and I could not tell you why, but it was like scratching on chalkboard and I quickly almost hissed without thinking something about not being his sweetie.  Totally unlike me. My husband couldn't tell you why it was different either.

We are all pretty odd creatures sometimes.

News of the Church / Re: Change In Ceremonial Temple Clothing
« on: January 24, 2020, 12:52:55 am »
....  But when the WHOLE ROOM is already waiting on me, JUST waiting, waiting, waiting, having one person waiting AND standing does NOT make me feel better at ALL!

I worried about that.  I know that if I felt everyone was standing and waiting for me, even with the kindest of motives, that would probably make me very uneasy.

So, I mostly don't do that.  I put on the robes slowly, and do everything really slow in a non-obvious way.  And then I kind of act like I'm checking everything over.  But then, I'll just sit down eventually.

I've noticed that since President Nelson uttered the line something like "Is it any wonder a righteous man would desire to stand when a righteous woman enters the room?" in his recent conference talk to the women's session, several men in each session (in the temple that I frequent) remain standing until all of the women sit down.

Now that would drive me a little nuts.

Mormon Life / Re: PRAYER LIST
« on: January 23, 2020, 02:05:50 pm »
I wish we lived close enough that I could give you respite when you need a break. You have our prayers.

Me too.

Forum and Member News / Re: Sorry
« on: January 23, 2020, 01:37:30 pm »
We just appreciate that it is up at all. Thank you so much for all you do.

News of the Church / Re: Change In Ceremonial Temple Clothing
« on: January 19, 2020, 02:17:37 pm »
Now I take my time so that I sit down as the other last person is sitting down, so that they do not feel conspicuous.

As someone who always struggled with manipulating the ceremonial clothing in the era of removing/replacing multiple times, I will say that things like this added to the anxiety that kept me from the temple for years. Do you honestly think the person struggling to tie the ties or replace shoes or keep the horrid elastic veil on their head isn't aware that you are completely done, and just waiting for them? It only adds to the feeling that I am a slow, inept disruption and everyone is highly aware of me and waiting, waiting, waiting for me and my obese, clumsy self to catch up. And the more of that anxiety there is, the more I not only can't feel the Spirit, but feel absolute horror at even being there. Honestly, the best thing you could do is sit down and act (yes, I know it would be subterfuge, but it would still help slightly) like you aren't waiting.

The somewhat (last few years) changes in the clothing approach have made me tempted to return, and I am eager to see the changes in the clothing veil (which I have despised for decades because I could NEVER get it to stay on right) in the hopes that my anxiety will be relieved enough that I can actually feel the Spirit enough to return to the temple.

That is one perspective I haven't heard.  My daughter  and have timed it to be with the last person as well, but have heard gratitude from others that they were not the only ones standing. 

Maybe it's different because I will never be able to be one of the first because of how my body operates and that may make things more comfortable for others, but my daughter doesn't have the same stuggles as I do and her friends have appreciated it.

I don't mean to use those words to say you are ungrateful. I just wasn't sure how to express the difference in feelings.  So many different ways to feel about things because of our own experiences.

News of the Church / Re: Change In Ceremonial Temple Clothing
« on: January 18, 2020, 01:27:29 pm »
I always wondered why that existed & why that step needed to be done in the first place.

The wonderful thing about saying everything in the temple is symbolic, and not explaining the symbolism, is that we can attach our one meaning and interpretations to the symbols and in matters not if we are right or wrong. Whilst I am familiar with most of the evolution of the Endowment, I don't know how the robes may have changed.

I think the cap will look even more silly without the plastic, and they certainly didn't have plastic when they first started using them.

The new onelooks like a very different cap, more like a beret.

The first three steps of any 12 step program, even the church's addiction recovery program, say pretty much the same thing.

The book actually mentions this as well.

Did the two of you write the book?  ;)

Willpower is enough for any 1 moment, but not for continuous moments which make up our lives.  I think a lot of it has to do with benefits and harms. We have evolved to live in a world wherein we can survive without constant threat of death or harm. There are very few things that will harm us continually that we cannot get away from. We can find relative security in doing what comes easiest. There are also immediate benefits to doing things that might bring long term harms to us. Our brains are/become hardwired to reward us for short term pleasures. In pre-modern times salt and sugar had immense survival benefits, so our brains are hardwired to seek those out, which in our times of plenty can lead to some poor long term dietary choices. Reproduction also had great benefits, and hi-jacking those reward centers can lead to poor choices.

Structure is very important in me being productive. I get far more accomplished on days that I have many appointments and assignments, rather than days that I do not have anything planned. I wouldn't necessarily call it being forced to do something, because there is still free will, but having structure and accountability provides incentives to make better choices.

That is pretty much what the book says!  It does much more detail of why it is not enough and gives examples etc, but for that concept you nailed what it said. 

General Discussion / Re: Update on Raro (Rebecca)'s family
« on: January 17, 2020, 11:11:26 pm »
Thank you! 

I can't believe he is that old! 

I'm putting this on book club because it is the ideas in the a book, but I am really hoping for more conversation about the concepts knowing that others may not read the book. So please join in if you have any thoughts about it.  I haven't finished the book, but am about half way through it.  I will go back and touch on some things from the beginning and then add more as I read. 

This book is Willpower Is Not Enough: Why We Don't Succeed at Change

If you don't have it already you can get a free 30 day trial of Deseret Book Plus and you can download the audio or ebook free for that time.  After that I think the cost is $10 per month, but goes down to $7 per month if you are in the rewards club (cost $25). I said I think because I did this at Christmas time and I am not sure if there was any special.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me if you join the plus or even read the book.  I just want to discuss the topics in the book.

Ugh.  Wanted to spend more time on this, but I need to go do something now so I am going to put just a wee bit in. 

“The frustrating thing is that we're often so ineffective in coming to the changes we want! We grit our teeth and seek to fight our inner weaknesses through sheer willpower—and then we're disappointed and discouraged when change doesn't come, or when it comes too slowly.

  We've seen this problem over and over as professional counselors: people who want to gain more control over their lives but just don't seem to be able to. We've grappled with the same problem in our personal lives. As we've worked and counseled and struggled over the years, we've come to a surprising conclusion: Efforts at using willpower don't work because using willpower isn't the right way to go about changing ourselves!”

“Willpower Is Not Enough: Why We Don't Succeed at Change” by A. Dean Byrd, Mark Chamberlain

So maybe start with - have you found your willpower is not enough?

The book goes into what does help and I want to discuss that latter.  So just for now in this question I'm want to know about your efforts of just using will power. 

Literature & Poetry / Re: What are you reading?
« on: January 16, 2020, 03:18:26 pm »
Patty, from what I have seen they are doing well. I am friends with Traci on Facebook, and have talked to her a few times, but we're not really close by any means, but if people would like, I could ask her for an update on Raro's children for her old Nauvoodle friends. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Please do.

Literature & Poetry / Re: What are you reading?
« on: January 15, 2020, 08:53:53 pm »
I'm in the middle of 4 books right now.

I'm reading The Compund Effect.  So far it talks about changing your life by little things.  That over time they become greater.  Like cutting out 100 calories per day over time means a weight loss of 30 pounds.  I'm reading a little of this each night before bed.

Rex and I are listening to The Power of Stillness: Mindful Living for Latter-Day Saints on Sundays, a chapter each week. 

I started to feel like I need to have more stillness in my life and this came at the right time.  After listening to about 4 or 5 chapters I thought I would like to listen to it with Rex and discuss the ideas.  So we are.

I have been walking at least 10,000 steps a day and sometimes I listen to music, sometimes nothing and sometimes a book.  After reading some of The Compound Effect I decided that for at least 1000 of those steps I would listen to something that will be helpful.  So I got on the Deseret Book app and am now listening to Willpower Is Not Enough: Why We Don't Succeed at Change during that time. 

It's interesting being in the middle of the 3 books and just trying to be "still" to see what Heavenly Father says about the differences and where I fit in it all. I'm really liking this.

Last I am reading  The Power of Stillness: Mindful Living for Latter-Day Saints or rather listening to it while I walk or do house work or drive or whatever.  It is my for fun book.  If you live in Salt Lake County it is one of the Reader's Choice  library books. 

I've never actively read or listened to so many books at one time before, but I'm enjoying it.  A couple of weeks ago I was listening to one book from Deseret Book that was set in England and had Dukes and Viscounts etc in it while in the car or walking and then one of my library books came off hold at the same and I would either read it or have Alexa read it to me at home.  It had the same type of setting.  Now those two were difficult to read together because there were so many Dukes, Lords, Viscounts etc between the 2 I would mix the two books up! 

Literature & Poetry / Re: What are you reading?
« on: January 15, 2020, 08:23:50 pm »
how is Tracy Hunter Abramson (LDS author) related to our dear departed Raro?  I enjoy her books, also.

Traci lives in Virginia where our dear Raro lived. They were very close friends, and Traci credits Raro with starting her on writing. Traci took in Raro's minor children after she died.

I did not realize that.  Thanks for letting us know.  Do you know how her kids are doing now?

Please Read / Re: Forum growth, stagnation, and changes
« on: January 15, 2020, 08:20:58 pm »

Section: Private (To be named something better, but I have no idea what.)
- Private Conversation (and we can send the Prayer List thread here if that's what people want.)

On two other boards I have been on this section was hidden unless you were a part of that group. Would that be like how it is there?  How about  "Nauvoo Members Board"? 

And I may have missed it - would this automatically add anyone who became a member of the board or just those trusted members that have been here? 

Years ago a group I was in were posting on a section of a board that got very little traffic compared to the whole board.  We started getting the impression there were quite a few people reading (Something I always thought would be happening, but others didn't realize for some reason). Someone called out and invited people to speak up.

A few in the group freaked out when we discovered so many speaking up.  So someone created a private board at another site with the idea that  private things could be said there while we still talked at the first site. 

That didn't happen.  Most everyone jumped ship and didn't post at the first site while all the newcomers didn't know why everything had gone so dead.  I explained why this was a problem to my group, but it didn't seem to matter to some of them.  I finally just told the new people that the group had moved.

So if we are going to do just part of this site as private could we make some sort of rule that only private things do we share on the private portion and the rest of the things we continue to post on the public boards?  It doesn't matter near so much here as it did there as some of us openly welcomed the newcomers only for the group to quickly abandon them, but it just makes sense here that if we are having a private board for private things we should keep it that way or just make the whole site private.   

Please Read / Re: Forum growth, stagnation, and changes
« on: January 14, 2020, 11:39:54 pm »
I find the comments about using a mobile phone for the forum interesting. I use an Android phone, with Chrome browser and I have no difficulty. It works find. I zoom in and out. But it works. I don't expect the phone to be the best way to interact on a forum.

I don't use chrome on my phone.  I use the Samsung internet browser.  I love Chrome on my computer.  Don't like it at all on my phone.  I wondered if that was the difference, but I just checked and still had the same problem.

I do zoom in and out, but it really annoys me to do that.  I don't know if it would have in the past, but now that I have experience with a number of other boards and this is the only board I have to zoom in to see things well then it makes a big difference for me. 

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