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Messages - Curelom

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General Discussion / Re: Urgent advice needed
« on: November 11, 2017, 07:43:26 pm »
This is a sad situation, & I hope you can gather enough resources to help this relative & those poor kids be safer.

Agreed - if this were a woman in an abusive marriage, she'd get lots of sympathy & relatives & friends trying to extricate her, & if the abuser was a guy, he would be a pariah in their family & social circle by now & it wouldn't take decades. We know that domestic abuse tends to be male-on-female, but women do it too, teen kids do it, same-sex partners do it, & lots of other people do it.

I certainly can't add anything to pnr's detailed advice, but your family will be in my prayers.
The following users thanked this post: Jen

General Discussion / Re: The Feel-Good Thread
« on: November 11, 2017, 07:39:35 pm »
Way back on Page 1 of this thread, in April 2016, I wrote about a 1956 disaster that never happened when a Pan Am (now, there’s a name out of the mists of lore & legend) flight left Honolulu for San Francisco & the DC-6 lost two of its four engines in mid-Pacific, in the middle of the night, past the point of no return (too little fuel to get back home), but was using up the remaining fuel so rapidly that it wouldn’t make SFO either. The pilot’s choices were to crash in the Pacific or attempt to ditch in the Pacific. Last year when I dug up the story, it was when I was looking for info about the Asiana Airline crash landing at SFO a couple years earlier that something like 306 of the 310 souls on board survived.

So anyway, the NYT just came out with a story about the 1956 ditching, because an aviation museum exhibit just opened to remember the first ocean ditching of an airliner with no fatalities.


Here's a toast to skilled professionals of all kinds that we sometimes have to trust with our lives, & all the times they've come through for us. [applause]
The following users thanked this post: LMAshton, Roper

palmetto_gal sez, “I first learned of this last night while watching ‘60 Minutes’.  I'm happy to live on the East Coast and plan to stay here.”

Imagine what it might be like to be at the top of this building in a hurricane! Or an earthquake of the magnitude of Charleston’s Big One in, was it 1868 or 1872? I hafta go look it up. As JLM sez, “One thing is for sure. vI wouldn't want to be anywhere near that building when the next big earthquakes hits.” :o

JLM also sez, “Even more worrisome is the risk of soil liquification during an earthquakes.  Were that to happen, the piles may not have adequate support to stay in place.  If the cg were to then to tip beyond the base, it would be timber time.”

And when that happens, considering its height & mass of the building, & its location in one of the most densely populated daytime areas in California, & about a quarter mile from the S.F. approaches to the Bay Bridge, when it does keel over, it’s going to kill massive numbers of people, & deposit debris all over what should be one of the city’s main routes for evacuation out or emergency personnel & supplies in, & probably do actual damage to the bridge.

Liquefaction was the big issue in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, particularly in S.F.’s Marina District, South of Market, & Mission District, which are on filled land. They were built over areas that were marshes, streams, or land filled with unstable material like those old Gold Rush shops & the rubble of long-ago burned buildings. That’s why it’s pretty typical for the big high-rise’s in downtown to have those piers going down 200 feet or more to bedrock. And in 1989, they almost unanimously performed well, except for a few unreinforced masonry ones built before modern building codes. Most of them didn’t even lose a lot of glass. The steel-frame buildings were able to flex the way the Golden Gate Bridge does in strong winds, & there were stories (apocryphal, but somewhat believable) of folks in the highest floors of some of them looking out the windows & worrying that their buildings might collide with others that were doing the same.

Since I’m not an engineer, architect, or geologist, I’m picking up interesting bits & pieces from people’s comments here. Thanks to everyone for chiming in – I didn’t think a topic like this would be so intriguing to so many people! :D
The following users thanked this post: Roper

News of the Church / Re: NorCal Regional Conf on Religious Freedom
« on: November 04, 2017, 10:12:50 pm »
OK, it’s time I got this done - notes on the Regional Conference on Religious Freedom, held last Saturday in Sacramento & broadcast to 62 NorCal stakes. Some of the speakers mentioned that guests of other religions & leaders of government were present.

Elder Rasband presided. Also attending were Elders Von G. Keetch & Carl B. Cook of the Seventy, Elder Lance B. Wickman, emeritus Seventy & Church general counsel, Sister Joy D. Jones of Primary, & their spouses. (Aside: I’ve always noticed that leaders who travel on Church assignments are accompanied by their spouses. That might not always be practical for businesses, other entities, or working couples, but how much general trouble in society do you think could be avoided if most business travelers usually had their spouses join them?)

Elder Keetch told of a rookie firefighter who was trained to stay where he was assigned no matter what was going on elsewhere at an incident, to man a hose, blast any flame he saw, & protect nearby buildings from catching fire. On his first call, he got bored standing there waiting for trouble to come to him, so he left his post to see if anyone needed help in different areas. By the time he returned to his assigned spot, the adjacent building was on fire & his chief had taken his place on the abandoned hoseline. The chief taught the young man a lesson that day: always stand where you are assigned, blast any fire that appears, & you don’t need to know everything to function competently.

Similarly, our duty is to be good upstanding community members in whatever roles we might have, & respond to situations in our own spheres.

Video on religious freedom gave us context with history & constitutional issues, emphasized that people must work together to protect religious freedom whether or not they are religious.

Elder Wickman alluded to recent wildfires in the area they were visiting (all of these leaders had been to the fire areas & met with victims, including non-LDS people sheltered in Church buildings). The upheaval in 13 original colonies was like a firestorm of change. Founders of the Revolution & founders of the Constitution were almost entirely different groups. Key words in the Constitution are “We the People”; the Constitution was the product of hard human labor by those inspired to “form a more perfect Union” & it is up to us to do the hard work of citizenship. We have become too accustomed to rely on the courts to define what religious liberty is. We are called to be protectors of religious freedom in whatever ways fit our personal situations.

Some liberties are inherent rights of citizenship & are not negotiable, e.g. belief, family worship, building of religious edifices. Some freedoms are tempered where there is overlap with other civil rights. Pragmatism & compromise are sometimes needed.

Sister Jones, former Santa Rosa resident returning to see areas she knew gone or changed by the wildfires, & scarred hillsides that had been green, thought of the threat of erosion from water once the land is defoliated. Likened it to the threats to our liberties & called it insidious. We need to engage our children in discussions that prepare them to be good citizens. “One voice can give courage to many” – recalled once being in a group of parents at a briefing on school sex education, & they spoke up & said some material wasn’t what they wanted their kids to get in school & asked that the kids be excused. After a pause, one & then another & another parent got up to agree, & eventually a majority disapproved & the school agreed to omit that material. In speaking for religious liberty, one voice may also encourage others.

Presentation by attorneys Alexander Dushku & Hannah Smith, both LDS, have California ties, & specialize in constitutional law. They hoped to help us with practical ways to find more info, specific ways to be involved, & how to answer tough questions. One source is a new Church website: religiousfreedom.lds.org

We need not be specialized professionals – just need to act in our own sphere of influence. Start with what we already do, & pray & make time to include something related to religious freedom. How do our work life, schools, or community connections provide opportunities to be involved? Students can also act. Ensign articles can start discussions at home & help us understand other people & cultures.
Is religious freedom (as many suspect) a code word for anti-LGBT discrimination?
-   Religious people & institutions have a constitutional right to worship & practice faith. It was not created to harm anyone.
-   “Love your neighbor” is still God’s commandment. We are not “against” anyone.
-   No one should be shocked that there can be conflicts between rights. There are areas where compromise is possible.

 Elder Rasband: We need to approach this as a choir, not as soloists. Asked for show of hands of those under age 20, & was amazed; said, “We are doing this for you.”

Why are “war chapters” in the book of Alma? There are lessons for us all about putting on armor & taking up the Title of Liberty. Nephites strategized how to defend religious liberty. The Twelve give presentations all over the world about this, an issue that needs defending everywhere. Religious liberty goes to the heart of moral agency, the privilege to choose right or wrong. Quoted Joseph Smith about all humans being created equal & having the ability to use agency, & his duty to defend the rights of all to worship freely because trampling on one is trampling on all.

We need to:
-   View others with fairness, acknowledge God’s love for all, & love our neighbor.
-   Let fairness guide our treatment of others, do not judge based on differences.
-   Stand up for others whose rights are being violated, even when their views differ from ours.
-   Be an example of a believer.

Blessed us all with “courage, conviction, & desire to lift where we stand; the Lord is in this work.”
The following users thanked this post: palmetto_gal, Roper, Palmon, Hobbes

News of the Church / Re: NorCal Regional Conf on Religious Freedom
« on: November 02, 2017, 02:51:26 am »
Thanks for chiming in, JLM. I've been meaning to come back & add more, but haven't gotten to it yet. I also appreciated the emphasis on building relationships with good people of all religions, or none, who believe that religious & secular rights can coexist.

The congregational hymns were "How Firm a Foundation" & "America the Beautiful."

Several of the presenters have some connection with California, & keep tabs on things going on here. So they know what the arena is like, where the controversies about religious rights & secular rights play out. 

I'll try to get back here again before too long & add a few more impressions.
The following users thanked this post: Roper

General Discussion / Re: The Feel-Good Thread
« on: October 30, 2017, 09:54:12 pm »
Another pro athlete being a good community member. Thanks, Klay Thompson. 8)

The following users thanked this post: LMAshton

Or if the sisters can stay humble without getting stroked & told what marvelous, saintly beings we are at the same intervals! :)
The following users thanked this post: dyany

News of the Church / NorCal Regional Conf on Religious Freedom
« on: October 29, 2017, 02:51:55 am »
The 62 stakes of Northern California attended a regional conference tonight on religious freedom. It was in Sacramento, at the stake center next to the temple, & was broadcast to the rest of us. Local Church members attended & several speakers alluded to guests of other faiths or from government. I’m not sure if other regions will also get something like this.

Elder Rasband presided & spoke. We also heard from Elder Von Keetch of the Seventy, Elder Lance Wickman (the Church’s general counsel), & Sister Joy Jones of Primary. Elder Carl B. Cook of the Seventy was also present. (These leaders had also earlier visited wildfire victims in the North Bay & several alluded to it, & to lessons we can learn from disasters that may apply to life as a whole).

We saw a video with some history & context about religious liberty, & presentation by two constitutional law attorneys with California roots (both LDS) about how ordinary people can find ways to be involved in protecting religious freedom & answer tough questions in a gospel-friendly way.

I’m about to go toes up, but I’ll come back & tell more about it later (tomorrow or early in the week). I posted this now mainly to commit myself, so I’ll have to come back & finish what I started. ;)
The following users thanked this post: palmetto_gal, Roper, Palmon

So now, a brother or a sister will have only one meeting a year associated with General Conferences, rather than two. That's how I read it. But isn't any consolidating or reducing of meetings a violation of the 14th Article of Faith? It says:
We believe in meetings, all that have been scheduled, all that are now scheduled, and we believe that there will be yet scheduled many great and important meetings. We have endured many meetings and hope to be able to endure all meetings. Indeed we may say that if there is a meeting, or anything that resembles a meeting, or anything that we might possibly turn into a meeting, we seek after these things.
The following users thanked this post: Taalcon

Writers' Showcase / Re: The anthology I'm in comes out in 3 weeks
« on: October 26, 2017, 02:54:04 pm »
Congratulations! It sounds like your work will help a lot of people.
The following users thanked this post: dyany

Doctrines & Scholarship / Can humans sweat blood?
« on: October 24, 2017, 01:32:46 am »
Can human beings actually release blood through their pores?

In KJV Luke 22, the language seems a bit ambiguous about whether Christ actually sweated blood; it could also be interpreted to be merely a comparison: “... sweat was as it were great drops of blood…” The New King James Version says “became like great drops of blood…” The New International Version says “like drops of blood falling to the ground.” The Douay-Rheims Bible used by Catholics says “became as drops of blood…” The wording in all of them is that of a simile & doesn’t explicitly say He did sweat blood. The Revised Standard Version seems not to mention this detail at all.

Only D&C 19 uses language that definitely says His agony was so great that He bled from every pore.

Doubters might ask how Joseph Smith could know such a detail when so many Bible versions are fuzzy about the language, & they might also wonder if this is physiologically possible. Well, aside from the matter of ongoing revelation, it is possible. It even has a scientific name, hematohidrosis. I just read about a recent case in Italy that indicates it does happen, albeit rarely, with this patient experiencing it during heavy emotional stress. This certainly is consistent with the D&C record of what Joseph had revealed to him about Gethsemane.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/health/blood-cmaj-health-hematohidrosis-disease-1.4365126 (contains photos that may be disturbing to some people).

The following users thanked this post: AndrewR, Roper

Book Club / "Mockingbird" shot down
« on: October 14, 2017, 05:54:08 pm »
I actually think this is more of a "Current Event" topic than a "Book Club" one, but I'll follow the rules & start it here. But it is not really about the book itself.

We live in an era when microaggression has become a major issue, professors & students must analyze every word before saying something that could cause psychic injury to a classmate, workplace HR directors write policies & memos about every possible way someone could be offended, & the overwhelming objective in any public action or statement (outside the political arena, anyway) is to avoid causing offense. Here is encouraging news for people who are afraid of having young people exposed to things that make them uncomfortable. To Kill A Mockingbird, a modern American classic, has been pulled from a Mississippi school district’s 8th grade curriculum. The reason given: it “makes people uncomfortable.”


Yes, it is a disturbing story of a time in our country when things happened that still burn our national conscience today. In many ways & for many reasons, the U.S. is a more complicated country today in the matter of race relations. Some of the issues the novel confronts are still not resolved to the satisfaction of anyone or any group represented in the story. Are 8th graders too young to learn about bigotry, justice delayed or denied, & the unspeakable atrocities of rape & lynching? Are their ears & minds too fragile to withstand the n-word without being cushioned by asterisks? In the world we live in, is it safe to presume most 8th graders are not new to any of those?

Other questions worth considering: if people are to regard themselves as educated, doesn’t that require being uncomfortable sometimes? How can anyone learn if they never see or hear anything outside their experience, personal or family belief system, or comfort level?

Is age 13 or 14 too soon for kids to start learning that the world is not entirely as it should be, that it has things in it that need changing, that not everyone in it is good & honorable & it needs more people who are, & the more they learn about it & everyone & everything in it, the better equipped they will be to make it the kind of place it should be?

The following users thanked this post: palmetto_gal

Forum and Member News / Re: Life changes three
« on: October 13, 2017, 12:43:57 am »
Best wishes on your move, Hobbes – glad to know you might be closer to some of Emily’s grandparents, aunts & uncles, & cousins. 8)

As for your new calling, as you know, Scruffydog has just been called as a bishop, & since RW callings carry over into Nauvoo, maybe he will call you as a counselor. ;)
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Youth in the Church / Re: Welcome to the YSA (not what you thought)
« on: October 13, 2017, 12:42:38 am »
Yes, much of the world does coed scouting; & true, boys might be able to learn to be men when girls are included in their activities. But scouting is not just about activities. And much of the world doing something doesn't necessarily mean it's best for everyone.

There aren’t many places in the world (in America, anyway), that have not been integrated, especially places that were traditionally male-dominated until the challenges by women against bastions of male power. In many cases, “social” or “fraternal” clubs were places where “movers & shakers” in politics, business, or education met, ostensibly to play golf, & decide the direction of a community, which often included maintaining women's second-class citizenship. We all know that’s wrong; no one should be excluded from decision, policy making, etc. that affects all of us.

What’s happened in reality goes far beyond this, so that now, an institution like the BSA finds itself accused of discriminating or not being inclusive. The purpose of Boy Scouts is to help boys become productive, wholesome male adults – just as the purpose of Girl Scouts is to help girls become productive, wholesome female adults. At the age when young people join a scouting organization, it may be best for some or most to do this in a single-sex environment, with leaders & associates of their own sex. Totally aside from the activities (we’re not really talking about rock climbing vs. lanyard weaving), what makes the difference for the young man or woman is being able to learn, grow, test themselves, & succeed in a safe place. Sad to say, a coed setting is not always safe for some individuals of either sex.

If you read the last two paragraphs of the GSA statement Roper cited, & substitute “boy” for “girl” in every instance, it could just apply just as much to the BSA. If a boy or girl (or an “other,” “undecided,” “non-binary,” etc.) or his/her/their/etc. parents believe the single-sex model isn’t right for him/her/them/etc., they need to investigate other organizations, rather than push radical changes in programs that have been proven for many decades to work for millions of young men & women.
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Forum and Member News / Re: Life Changes too
« on: October 10, 2017, 01:31:03 am »
Best wishes in your new calling, Bishop Scruffy.

Can Nauvoodle be part of your ward?
The following users thanked this post: Scruffydog, palmetto_gal

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