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Messages - Patty Rain

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News of the Church / Re: Church Worthiness Interviews
« on: June 30, 2018, 10:27:46 am »
In the US there has been a pretty big outcry from a small group since March --- for us this is pretty old news.   I have personally never had these experiences, nor do I know anyone personally who has articulated it.    But we can fairly believe that some bishops have.

But the BBC is old news because very recently, the church published new guidelines for bishop's interviews with children.  They give the specific questions, require bishops to provide the questions to parents/youth before their first interview, explicitly announce that parents are the ones responsible to teach (apparently sometimes bishops say they do it because they wanted to make sure kids knew what the Law of Chastity is*), and allow kids to have their parent or another adult in the room.   

I am not at all sure how these questions about masturbation have become part of the worthiness decision anyway as the handbook for some years has explicitly said that there is no discipline council for "self abuse" (or pornography, for that matter) 6.7.1   I understand why some people believe they could be part of as sexual abuse grooming, which is abhorrent on its face, so that is all the more puzzling why any bishop has become so entwined in sexual discussion with youth.

  I DO understand how the question can be relevant pre-mission, as what one missionary does can impact other missionaries who are not free to leave or make their own roommate decisions.   

Of course it awaits to be seen what happens when a youth reports a bishop for asking sexual questions now (and I believe that the guidelines might have been sent only to US wards, though that will likely change with the BBC report).  If they are immediately released then any concerns members have that the policy is sufficient, should be resolved.   If excuses are made and they remain, at some point the church will be held accountable for what looks like grooming (even if bishops aren't intending it as that).

So my advice to you Andrew is to go to lds.org and print it out, give a copy to your leaders, point out the section that says parents are the ones responsible for sex education, and the handbook section (it is in book 1) that says it cannot be a discipline council issue)   suggest to your SP that all bishops receive personal and thorough training on the subject, and that the SP ask a sample of youth regularly, "did you get a copy of the questions before?  Did the bishop stick to the questions? Were you made aware that you could bring an adult if you chose?  How did you feel about the interview?" as an internal survey, and as oversight technique.

And I'd also be urging bishops to teach what is in "Of Souls, Symbols and Sacrament" (the doctrines of  human intimacy) in a 5th sunday lesson so that parents know what to be teaching their children.   (They really need to understand that not masturbating is about controlling their natural man/woman, and not controlling that makes keeping the commandments more difficult, so learning to control the desire outside of marriage (and even during marriage) is fundamental to their happiness, and if they haven't mastered it, it may affect whether they can serve as their choice will impact companions who must live with them and if they cannot control it before mission, then they won't be able to during it, but does NOT mean they are bad, or unworthy or God hates them, or that the bishop or anyone else should be talking to them about it, except to ask if they do during a missionary interview.)

*I teach it simply as intentionally arousing sexual feelings except with an opposite sex spouse to whom you are legally married, or continuing any behavior after you become aware that it is arousing  you or your partner sexually. 
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Forum and Member News / JOB OFFER!
« on: May 17, 2018, 05:08:31 pm »
I received this today!!!!!  I am so excited.  It is a telecommuting job so I can do it anywhere I can take my lap top.  I will have my office set up at my house with the printer, scanner etc. Humana is offering me a great pay rate, employee stock purchase plan and  stock options after 12 months of service.
I can't tell you how happy I am!!!
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Church Callings & Experiences / It's me
« on: April 22, 2018, 06:54:56 pm »
I've been itching to tell you all for a week, but since I don't know who might lurk here I chose not too.

However, today I was sustained and set apart as the EQP - almost 25 years to the day from the last time.

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General Discussion / Re: Grades in Elementary School
« on: April 10, 2018, 11:28:14 pm »
For college, and maybe for high school, I definitely see the value of testing and scoring the way Jason described. For elementary school, I think testing and scoring, at least in the "traditional" way, places a premium on one type of learning and perpetuates discrimination against many kids, often labeling them as needing "intervention." 

An example: If the learning objective is "Represent real-world and mathematical problems by graphing points in the first quadrant of the coordinate plane, and interpret coordinate values of points in the context of the situation" (a Utah fifth grade math standard), then there are a number of ways to demonstrate mastery.  A traditional test would have a diagram of a coordinate plane with some points plotted, and then maybe coordinate pairs as part of matching or multiple choice problems.  There might be some sort of story problem in an attempt to make a question Depth of Knowledge level 3  ::)  Students who are visual/spatial learners, and definitely logical/mathematical learners, and probably those who are verbal/linguistic learners (who will love the story problems) are going to do okay.  But what about kids who learn best kinesthetically? What about (as Howard Gardner described) kids who are naturalists?  Interpersonal or intrapersonal learners? Spiritual/philosophical learners?  Musicians?  Artists? Because of the way we test, students groups who can "do school" (such as Anglo and Asian middle class and affluent students) will do well. Others student groups will fail.  Hence, the much-discussed-but-never-eliminated "Achievement Gap."

Look at what students are required to master: Represent real world and mathematical problems by...

Students could do that by designing a treasure hunt and map and move around the playground.
They could create and perform a dramatic play or a song with visuals (insert Dora the Explorer here.)
They could mentor another student and teach the objective.
They could design (or even plant) a garden plot.
They could create a pixel art mural for the classroom.

There are hundreds of ways to represent real-world problems. All could be scored using rubrics based on evaluating mastery of the objective.

Instead, we use traditional written tests because they're easy to create, easy to administer, easy to score, and easy to separate into piles of high, average, and low.

No wonder so many kids are disengaged.
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Are temple matrons blessed with any kind of keys to officiate in that ordinance? I'm curious.
To clarify terminology, 'Keys' are not even given to general priesthood officers. Relief Society President do not have Keys. (Elder's Quorum presidents do). Keys are reserved for those who preside over an organization of what is seen as Priesthood responsibility where ordinances are to be performed and safeguarded (IE, A Quorum, A Mission, A Temple, A Ward, A Stake, The Church). For example, I don't baptize because I have the Keys of Baptism, but because either the Mission President or Bishop (who has the keys for Convert Baptisms or Child of Record baptisms respectively) has authorized the ordinance to occur by my hand. I was eligible to be authorized, based on current understanding, by virtue of my having a particular Priesthood Office. As I would understand it currently, the Matron would not have keys. Temple Workers (including women) are able to serve in the ordinances within by virtue of being set apart by the Temple President, who has keys, or his Counselors, who have been authorized to delegate that authority from the Temple President. Being set apart is, ultimately,  being delegated with a responsibility inherent in the Keys of a jurisdiction. You are fulfilling a Priesthood Key Responsibility.

I'm not going to step much into the initiatory ordinances further but to note that each step is done with a declaration of 'having authority'. There are significant differences in the explanation and declaration for certain parts for men and women. But the declaration of having authority that begins each successive steps for the Actions/Ordinances that are done (which are accompanied by the declaration of blessings) is exactly the same for both.

It is very clear, at least to me, - especially in the context of the preamble, which sites a scripture as the precedent for what is occurring - that what is being done is very much to be seen as a priesthood ordinance. (The 'symbolically' very much seems to have been added to acknowledge the change that came at the time when we no longer actually physically wash the entire body /  touched each actual body part with water or oil as had been done, in some form, for the majority of the time of the existence of the modern ordinance)

Declaring an already-prepared text does not make it any less an ordinance, when done in the correct setting, with the proper authority. See the Sacrament, which is a written Prayer AND signified as a Priesthood Ordinance.

The "It can't be a priesthood ordinance because women do it" is an interesting perspective, going in somewhat a different direction that what happened with Blessings (It became a Priesthood Ordinance so the policy changed so women could no longer do it - the W&A are being explained away as must NOT being a Priesthood ordinance so it can make sense why women still CAN.)


Alright. I really didn't intend to make this whole topic A Thing again. It's a good discussion, but until something happens (or consistently doesn't happen, as it may be) it IS all speculation and conjecture. I get that some get uncomfortable even Going There. I think it's worthwhile to explore things that COULD be without being too insistent that here's how things MUST be. I try to remember that myself. I've tried mainly just to correct or clarify misunderstandings of or objections to my thoughts where they've been expressed.

It's clear that I have Strong Feelings about this. But I don't want it to be misunderstood that I think that anyone else who has a different perspective is Wrong or Bad or Stupid, or whatever.

I don't. At all, and I want that made very, very clear.

I DO think that many times terminology gets in the way of an ultimate agreement of a key principle, and we fiddle about with implementation or finding The Right Word for it. It's why a leader can say in one part of a talk that a single mother alone in her home who keeps her covenant can sing, truthfully, "Mine is a home that every hour is blessed with the strength of Priesthood Power!", and later, have a leader refer to being sensitive to faithful single mothers who don't have the Priesthood in their home.

But I do want to go back and ultimately say that, potential future motions aside,  this was the best I've felt in a General Conference in a very long time, and left me consistently feeling more built up, and more inspired, more hopeful, more wanting to repent, and more proud of my Church than I have in past memory. I love the changes. I see great power in them, and look forward to doing what I can to put them into practice.

Thanks, folks, for being a great and thoughtful sounding board. It's one of the very, very, very few places I ever feel comfortable doing so in such an open manner in this regard.
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Sister missionaries represent the Lord the same way as Elders do.

I personally don't feel I'm missing anything for I've had enough experiences of what my faith can do. I understand some feel differently. If one day we are told women will do the same things as men do, I'll be fine with that. If that day never comes, I'm just as fine with that.

My belief is we really don't understand much about priesthood. I liked how it was said during the conference how most men don't give blessings, they talk about wishes. Because it is not understood. I believe that if we really understood priesthood, all this discussion would feel rather silly.
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General Conference / Re: NO MORE HOME/VISITING TEACHING?!?!?!
« on: April 02, 2018, 12:10:51 am »
My oldest daughter turns 14 in fall, so I'm excited about this. In general I hope we actually take this on board and do more than less. We just counted yesterday and we can think of 6 visits by our home teachers within our 17 years of marriage. Various companionships. I understand we've always been active, so maybe not seen as those who need ministering. But it would have been nice. Still going strong so I hope this wont mean even less visits. (Interest on us outside the visits --- hasn't been any better).

We've had maybe one home teaching visit a year in the last 7 years, which have been the most intensely difficult of our marriage. No home teachers.... spotty visiting teachers... that and a few other things have, at very least, shown me how important it is to at least try with people. I never would have imagined I could feel so abandoned and alone in a ward "family". I wonder if this will change things?
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 Eh, honestly, I heard a lot of rumors, and that's the one that sounded the most legitimate and plausible.

Listen, I predicted in 2012 that YW would be rebranded as part of the RS to be an equivalent to the aaronic Priesthood's relationship to the Elder's Quorum.


That hasn't happened yet. But I DO see this as a step along the way. Especially since the YW now participate in the Ministering service just as the YM had previously done w/ Home Teaching! Might have been off by a decade, but I still think we'll see it.

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Mormon Life / Re: Don't you love it...
« on: March 17, 2018, 11:57:54 pm »
The last couple of years we lived in Texas, we kept getting having inklings to get ready to move to Utah to be closer to family. It never seemed the right time.  Then last April...BAM! It was one of the very few times in my life that I've received unmistakable inspiration.  We knew it was time to move.  So last summer, we sold our home in Texas and moved to Utah.  Three months later, my father passed away.  I don't know how we would have managed everything from Texas if we had stayed there. Since we were already here in Utah, we were able to help my mom get through everything.  Then my brother-in-law ended up in and out of the hospital for a while. On top of all that, our kids absolutely love it here. They have really good friends who share the same values. I'm so glad we followed the inspiration and moved when we did.
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Mormon Life / Don't you love it...
« on: March 17, 2018, 02:45:20 pm »
... when you actually know for sure it was the Spirit that told you something?

Do you ever wonder if you're as good as you think in hearing the Spirit?  I feel quite comfortable where I'm at. I feel I receive guidance through the Holy Ghost and I feel I understand it quite well. Of course, I can be totally wrong, because I wouldn't know which promptings I've missed and when I've misunderstood.

Yesterday I agreed to teach an investigator with the sisters. They were a bit late and he arrived at the church on time, so we had a little chat and he seemed a pleasant fellow and interested in the gospel. Having an atheist background coming from Russia, he seemed eager to learn.

We started the discussion when the sisters eventually came and very soon I got the feeling that after the meeting I should suggest the sisters the ask the Elders teach him. I got the feeling it was the Spirit telling me to do that. I did pray about it, because he seemed pretty good investigator. Strong feeling I should. In the very end of the lesson the sisters did say something that the Elders have many interesting things to teach him too, that he could sometime meet with them.

Afterwards I asked if they planned to move him to the Elders. They did. I told them very good, because I had felt that I needed to tell them they should.

They were grateful for the confirmation. I was also grateful for the confirmation that yes, I felt I knew it was the Spirit telling and I was right it was the Spirit. They did share their reasons and having heard them I knew it was absolutely the right decision.

Isn't it wonderful when you know it truly was the Holy Ghost. What experiences do you have of that, please share  :)

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Mormon Life / Re: PRAYER LIST
« on: March 13, 2018, 10:58:03 pm »
Some of my husband's family were in the areas where rioting and vandalism happened. One of them had four gas bombs thrown at his house, but luckily (very very luckily), they didn't work and no damage happened as a result. Others had their houses stoned. But that's the worst of it for the relatives.

Things have calmed down, people have been arrested. Sadly, a lot of the people in the mobs were young - as in, 18-30. People on twitter talked about how the racists were all older people and the younger generation is better - I wouldn't say that is necessarily the case given who was actually destroying property.

Social media is still blocked and will be until at least Friday. Part of that is because facebook doesn't do much of anything to remove hate speech from their site. I've reported more than a few groups that, in English, called for death and destruction to specific groups in Sri Lanka. According to facebook, they aren't in violation of facebook's community standards. The hate speech groups in Sinhalese are even less likely to be removed because facebook doesn't have anyone or enough people who can read Sinhalese to deal with them. The government of Sri Lanka has set up a meeting with Facebook to discuss these things. I doubt that anything will change.

Germany and another country in Europe ( I don't recall right now which one) have laws that state that hate speech needs to be removed (from facebook as well as everywhere else) within a certain time frame. Facebook doesn't care about that, and Germany's a powerful country. Why would they care about what a country like Sri Lanka says?

The violence is over, theoretically, for now. But I doubt it's really over completely. The hate speech spreads lies and misinformation about minority groups, and until those lies and misinformation and hate speech are squashed, the hate and destruction will continue. Sri Lankans aren't great at reining in their emotions and destruction.
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Following President Kimball's challenge to members present at a meeting, President Nelson will encourage us all to become fluent in a new language.  http://mormanity.blogspot.com/2017/10/learning-from-president-nelsons.html
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General Discussion / Re: Question about your talents
« on: March 09, 2018, 02:50:33 pm »

Maybe you could change talents to strengths since you mentioned it. I prefer strengths to talents and gifts,because it seems to give a wider perspective of finding the positive things about yourself.

It has always been in our school curriculum to help the kids find their strengths but it has become more important and more visible and systematic in the last 5 or so years. Like many high schools have the kids make this https://www.viacharacter.org/www/ to find their strengths and in Primary school we do a lot of things to help kids find them.

So maybe you could focus on how one can find out what their strengths are, how they can use them in living the gospel and serving others and how our weaknesses can become strenghts.

Just a thought. Strengths seem more approachable.
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Writers' Showcase / Re: New book
« on: March 08, 2018, 12:31:28 pm »
If you are interested,  Wings of Fire, Book 7 of the Legend of Hooper's Dragons is available on amazon now.https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Fire-Legend-Hoopers-Dragons-ebook/dp/B07B8C67Y6/ref=zg_bsnr_7006698011_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=22F5T7WR6KB4WKVDJ1K6
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And because of our conversations here it makes me snort .every.single.time
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