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Messages - Patty Rain

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General Discussion / Re: It Never Fails!
« on: September 04, 2017, 12:47:49 am »
The good news is that a new fridge isn't going to cost you anywhere near as much as what's coming in. So it won't make a huge dent in your plans to pay down your debts. And it will be much more energy efficient, which will save you money on your electric bills as well as your grocery bill since food won't spoil so quickly.
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Forum and Member News / Re: KetchupQueen
« on: September 03, 2017, 02:55:10 am »
About  a third of the mandatory evacuation orders got lifted tonight. That likely means the firefighters will able  leave structural defense mode of that and start to get more containment tomorrow... I hope. As long the other areas of housing don't become more threatened and need more personnel.
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Forum and Member News / Re: KetchupQueen
« on: September 02, 2017, 10:41:09 pm »
We are very close to the fire. Our house isn't in danger- fire would have to come through literally 400+ structures to reach us from the closest spot- but a few ward members and more stake members evacuated. (One ward member is also a block from an evac line and posted a pic from helping her neighbor evac their horses- one evac center is taking animals. So my friends hauled food for them in their truck while their neighbors rode and led the horses down.)

I have asthma and smoke can be a major trigger, but have closed-system a/c we've been able to keep running, I not only have an inhaler but my dad dropped off a nebulizer and started me on steroids. I don't enjoy prednisone, but I 100% prefer icky side effects and breathing without any issues to using albuterol constantly. I'm blessed to have a doctor dad whom I can text to say "I need a prednisone burst" and he just calls it in without me having to go in the smoke see anyone! My mom's asthma is also under control and my sister's managing hers ok with minimal albuterol. We're all heeding the warnings to stay in and run the a/c.

2 families in my city have lost homes. Prayers for them, those threatened/evaced, and especially the brave firefighters from 6 agencies protecting us are appreciated. We are dedicating our fast to pray for calming of the winds, maybe some rain (50% chance predicted tomorrow) and protection for the firefighters. This is a natural process but I believe God is definitely protecting our firefighters! It has been wonderful to see community support for them too.

Thank you for the concern.  :-*
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I think the first post already violates this thread's stated charter?
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There just HAS to be news worthy of discussion that does not mention or allude to the current POTUS.  He is NOT the center of the universe. 
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News of the Church / Re: New curriculum
« on: August 29, 2017, 12:37:38 pm »
PattyRain, no SS is still men and women together, the 3rd hour manuals are combined as follows: Aaronic and Melc. priesthood will have the same manual; RS and YW will have the same manual. Youth SS will use the same manual as the adult SS class.
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News of the Church / Re: New curriculum
« on: August 27, 2017, 01:10:02 am »
I understood it is not a 'ley's talk about how we can help sister x struggling with pornography' but let's talk how we can support someone we know who struggles with pornohraphy whether it is a spouse, child, parent or friend and what can I do if it's me'

We've always had the 4th Sunday lesson chosen by RS presidency & priesthood presidencies.
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Mormon Life / Re: Struggles with Church Leadership structure
« on: July 25, 2017, 02:35:23 pm »
I don't want the bishops to "follow the manual".  I want them to consult the manual, understand the underlying doctrine and the human reasons for whatever is troublesome, and then figure out what God wants in the circumstances.

I don't want bishops to be a trained clergy.  I want them to be humble servants who seeks to know everything that the world knows about skills and how to, so he can use it service to God, one who chooses counselors with knowledge and experiences beyond his own and different from his own, one who is all about shepherding, not manual-following. 

And I've never been in a congregation which didn't have bishops in training with the SP at least once a month for 1.5 -2 hrs. like clockwork.  And while I've known bishops who never read the manual (one because he couldn't read), I guess I'm not so proud to say, I know none who didn't go read it after their first visit with me asking them about this or that in it (IOW, when they finally got that they might not know exactly what the general rule was now just because they've always done something differently and watched other leaders do so too).

If we believe that God chooses bishops, then we have to also accept that He is able and willing to guide to get the instruction and training that He needs to successfully do what He needs them to do.

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Mormon Life / Re: Struggles with Church Leadership structure
« on: July 17, 2017, 05:40:39 pm »
Dyany, if you understood me to say that people who are hurt or offended should just 'suck it up', I did not express myself well. Yes, there are times when people need to square their shoulders and go forward, even when hurt - but I wasn't speaking to that.  Forgiveness is the key. Justice will never heal your friends.  Forgiveness does not mean the offender is free from consequences but what it does is heal the soul. It is probably the hardest thing to ask of us, to forgive people who could care less about the harm they cause. And yet, it is really the only way to go forward.
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Doctrines & Scholarship / Re: Burial
« on: July 17, 2017, 09:11:34 am »
During my tenure as a counselor in RS, whenever we dressed a sister's body and placed her temple clothing on her, the RSP would always say, "Let's remember, sisters, we are dressing Sister X to meet the Savior."  That was reason enough for me.

OTOH, I am very heavy and I plan to be cremated.  I've told my RSP that I'm fine with having them place my temple clothing with my body prior to cremation to spare them the burden of having to dress me.  I have absolute faith that when everything is restored, my garments and clothing will be on my body as needed. 
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Mormon Life / Re: Struggles with Church Leadership structure
« on: July 17, 2017, 05:58:54 am »
Roper, I would have immediately contacted the Area Seventy presiding over the CCM for your stake. And if nothing was done the Area President/member of the Presidency of the Seventy over him. And if required, President Packer/Nelson depending on when you are talking about.

I personally have not really had any issues with Bishops or Stake Presidents. I have had an incompetent bishop, and I have had one that probably didn't like me much. But it didn't really cause me much of an issue.

Our current Bishop is having problems. He is home grown and his biggest problems come from those he grew up with thinking he is no use, and a little bit of "it should have been them".

The types of things I read above I have not encountered in 30+ years of being EQP, Bishopric Counsellor, Stake High Councillor and Stake Clerk - with a smattering of HPGL, YMP and WML.
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Mormon Life / Re: Struggles with Church Leadership structure
« on: July 17, 2017, 01:07:42 am »
My youngest daughter (now 25) has had many faith-promoting personal experiences in her life, but apparently has had too many disappointments when it comes to church leaders and some church members.  She now claims to be atheist.  My wife and I have been in wards that were not perfect but were wonderful beyond description and made us happy to be among them.  We have also been in wards that were dysfunctional beyond description and made us want to run away screaming.  My point:  I know bad things happen (real, not exaggerated), and it hurts, and it strains our faith.

A few generalizations:

* The only personís testimony we can fully trust and lean on is our own.  Hearsay (both faith promoting and faith demoting) may influence our testimony, but our personal testimony (our own experiences, not that of others) must be our foundation.

* Being fully honest and objective with ourselves can be difficult. 

* If I am seeking sympathy from my friends then my side of the story likely will not be the full truth.  I will emphasize my perspective.  There are always two sides to a story. 

* Forgiveness is a very powerful balm for the soul, and no one can shut you out from it.  You donít need first for the other person to change, or admit their wrong, or be punished in this lifetime for that wrong.  No one escapes the Lordís justice except the penitent.  I was abused as a child, and after several decades I learned of forgiveness line by line.  Where I am now is that I wish for my abuser to somehow be found worthy of Our Lordís forgiveness.  I want to meet him in the afterlife and discover that he has been made clean and that we will be friends.  I donít mean that I hope he cheats justice.  I mean that I hope he found his way home (he died in 2010). 

* We should do what we can to alert PH authorities of abuses of PH authority.  But ultimately this is the Lordís church and we have to trust that He knows what is going on and that He will set things right in His own way and in His own time.  Often our flawed fellow humans are the strongest trials of our faith. 
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Mormon Life / Re: Struggles with Church Leadership structure
« on: July 15, 2017, 06:44:06 pm »
Dyany, I understand what you are saying about leaders causing more harm. What I am saying is that as members we need to realize that the bishops, stake presidents, etc. are all flawed and they make mistakes. My husband still grieves over mistakes he made as a bishop 15 years ago.  Sure, sometimes people who are called fall and do evil things, say evil things but the vast majority of leaders, men and women are trying to do the best they can. They don't live under a cloud of pure inspiration and are often left to make decisions on their own. Yes, sometimes their actions need to be brought to the attention of the higher ups but more often then not, we as members need to learn forgiveness. This is coming from a woman that struggled to forgive a bishop for 10 years for things that happened under his stewardship. And then another bishop for his actions that were extremely harmful. And painful.  And yet when it came down to it - they really were doing the best they could with the limited understanding they had.  In the end, it was me that needed to forgive and ask for forgiveness. Sometimes I still get angry and have to do the repentance thing all over again. And during those years, yeah, I did let the hardness of my heart get between me, the Lord and activity in the church.
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Mormon Life / Re: Struggles with Church Leadership structure
« on: July 15, 2017, 03:50:21 pm »
My counsel in those situations is:

1.  The first step is to examine carefully for the moot in one's own eye, and seek patience.   Sometimes the things we think of as burdens are in fact blessings we haven't recognized.
2.   If the person is able and willing to pray for that person, for the peace to forgive, for the ability to see them as God does, for God Himself to take care of it, sometimes that is enough.
3.   If the behavior is criminal in fact in local statutes, or abusive in ways that are protected by civil or criminal law, then the member can make the necessary reports so that those issues can be dealt with secularly, again prayerfully so that what is done helps resolve the situation, not makes things worse.
4.  I encourage people to confirm what happened with the local leadership in writing, first to the person, then up the chain of command, at each level attaching the evidence and the answers they received at the levels below.   I do not provide the addresses for these people in the chain of command (because I do not want to be the reason or impetus for them going up the chain).  I do not suggest that will solve the issue.  I warn that sometimes doing this prompts leaders to threaten church discipline, even though it shouldn't.   But I remind them that if they have good reason to believe that the abuse of power and/or direct actions of wickedness is harming anyone, reporting it all the way up the chain of command to the First Presidency is the only way someone can know they have done everything within their power to stop it.
5.  I advise people who do not have personal knowledge to limit their activities to praying for the leaders, serving the harmed member, including by not concentrating on the bad acts, until or unless they get specific inspiration to do something else.  (I have on more than one occasion made appointments with offending leader to express my concerns, after such inspiration.  But many times I have not received inspiration to do that.)
6.   And I talk with those offended about not giving power to people who have offended them, by quitting Christ's church, and abandoning their own covenants.  I suggest that they don't have to have a TR or agree with anything that someone has done to sustain them as the leader God is allowing to remain in place in such circumstances in order to be at church where God wants them to be doing what God wants them to do.   Other's behavior need never be a personal stumbling block if we accept that we are each responsible for our own lives and choices, however badly we are treated.  Sometimes the waiting on the Lord to make things right takes a full lifetime or more and we never get to see the justice.   Doesn't have to change a dang thing for any of us if we refuse to let it.   And sometimes we find ourselves being more kind, and more Christlike as we handle these experiences, sometimes we become more useful to Him when we navigate around and through bad things.

It is entirely true that I've seen some pretty horrible behaviors by local leaders, and behavior that is ratified as it goes up the chain of command.   But I have also witnessed corrections, especially when solid members with personal information act in support of the harmed person under inspiration to do so.

7.  And if I do contact the offender(s), I do not share that I am doing so with the offender, nor do I communicate after the fact what happened. 
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General Discussion / Re: Cabin & Porch
« on: July 13, 2017, 03:21:57 pm »
Congrats & best wishes to Brady & his bride :)
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