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Messages - palmetto_gal

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General Discussion / Thank you, veterans
« on: November 09, 2019, 12:24:28 am »
Michelle and I attended the Veterans Dinner hosted by the Santaquin American Legion. SSgt. Porter, who was a tail gunner on bombing missions during WWII, spoke about his experiences. He's 93 years old, and the only surviving member of his B-29 crew. His accounts reminded us to be thankful for the sacrifices of all who have served our country. Thank you, veterans!
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Wow! This really is amazing.

Looking at it makes me grateful for the access we have to the word of God. To think that for most of history, almost no one had scriptures to read, & few could read at all, & the masses had to rely on the literate & learned (which usually meant the clergy) to tell them what God said & what He meant. We owe so much to those who lit the fire of the Reformation, those who were martyred for being heretics, & those who modernized printing to make the Bible more available & give more people access to spiritual truths & divine revelation.
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General Discussion / Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« on: October 15, 2019, 10:16:49 pm »
I've lived long enough to remember JFK, LBJ, Nixon, etc., & even recall being a child in the Eisenhower years. Once upon a time, presidents appointed Supreme Court justices for their judicial experience, wisdom, & ability to interpret the law fairly. Eisenhower, Kennedy, & other Potuses of both parties nominated so-called "conservative" AND "liberal" justices. During my early years of being aware of the Supreme Court, it was pretty balanced between the two & it was almost a given that Potuses tried to keep it that way. Judicial activism of either political extreme seemed rarer & presidents were not as apt to exploit & abuse their ability to fill SCOTUS seats. We once understood & hoped that legal scholars would be less prone than venal, self-serving politicians (a category that includes most presidents) to have an “agenda” or let politics influence their interpretation of the law.

Back then, "liberal" & "conservative" were used more to identify justices’ philosophy about interpretation of the Constitution – not political leanings or positions on specific issues. A justice was considered a strict or liberal constructionist, or a mix. Depending on the issue, there could be a place for both if the original Constitution was silent or needed to be reinterpreted. For instance, on matters of civil rights, in our Founders’ time, up to half of citizens were denied the right to vote, some people were defined as 3/5 of a person, & humans were bought & sold. So judicial thinking needed to catch up, which wasn’t judicial activism any more than the changes in Church policy about ordinance witnesses are a change in doctrine.

Now, presidents look at how a justice will rule on specific issues, with today’s hot-button ones being abortion & same-sex partner cases, & there are others. But the measure of people’s fitness to be on the SCOTUS should not be how they might be expected to rule on abortion or mandatory health insurance or any other specific matter. It should not be what party they belong to. It should be a verifiable record of wisdom, restraint, fairness, willingness to consider all sides of an issue, & a habit of being deliberate & thorough in reaching judgments. If we had justices who met those criteria, I would be fine with seeing a mix of “conservative,” “liberal,” & “moderate” on the court to ensure an active exchange of ideas & opinions. Those criteria leave room for both “conservative” & “liberal” life philosophies or political persuasions. They also eliminate hotheads, axe grinders, & those who don’t think carefully or weigh all the evidence – which can also include people of both political extremes.

In an ideal time, if we are ever again blessed with presidents who look further ahead than eight years & consider how Supreme Court rulings will affect their grandchildren’s grandchildren, we might once again see SCOTUSes free of political influence & manipulation. I’d like to live to see that, when the Supreme Court is truly the independent branch of government & the functional part of our system of checks & balances that the Founders intended it to be.
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Mormon Life / Re: PRAYER LIST
« on: October 15, 2019, 09:00:46 am »
Thanks. Update: radioactive seed implant this month, surgery december, radiation January.  Done and dusted.  I had a blessing, good professionals, sterling husband.  God is good.
You prayers were the wind under my wings this week.
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General Discussion / Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« on: October 04, 2019, 10:35:20 pm »
We don't know that. The person in the Oval Office has less power over the economy than most people think. There is a lot of "false cause" fallacy going on when presidents seek to lay claim or place blame for the economy.

- Economic policies slowly affect the economy over longer periods of time than the years a president is in office.
- Government taxes and spending have a large impact on the economy. Those are set by congress. Not by the president.
- The Federal Reserve determines interest rates in order to prevent recessions and maintain low inflation. The president does not.
- The president does not determine demographics, which are the biggest factors economic considerations.
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General Conference / Re: Predictions for the coming General Conference?
« on: September 30, 2019, 10:29:47 am »
Nor a rumor or really a prediction, but a thought: I really, really would not be surprised if in the not too distant future, the age for participation in Temple Baptisms was lowered to 8, so that as soon as children are deemed responsible enough to be baptized, they can go and participate in the parallel Temple ordinance.

The earlier children and families can attend the temple together and have a good temple experience, the sooner.

Plus, if one adds in the idea of the authorization of women to serve as witnesses, Temple Baptisms (as well as Living Ordinance Baptisms) would be whole family participation event.
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Mormon Life / Re: Lost testimony
« on: September 27, 2019, 03:49:17 am »
I am not supporting the actions of those who put Savannah on camera because they clearly had a malign intent. What I am talking about is where people are speaking their truth. Cutting them off is an option, but whether you let them speak or cut them off, the impact on the spirit in the meeting is the same. You might as well be gentle with them as you restore the spirit by bearing your own testimony. It hasn't happened very often, but when it does, the bishopric testimony is followed by a whole wave of members getting up and bearing their testimonies as well. The Spirit is in the room and stronger than when the awkward comments were being given.

When do we feel the line has been crossed? When we can feel the Spirit fading from the meeting. That isn't just about disruptive 'testimonies', it is also where the testimonies have been off the point, crossed into personal aggrandisement, been travelogues, or something else that drains the Spirit. Testimony meetings should raise the spirits of those in the room, and the job of the Bishopric is to ensure that whatever other things have been said, there has been testimony of Jesus Christ and the Plan of Salvation. Underlying it all is love unfeigned.
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Mormon Life / Re: Lost testimony
« on: September 26, 2019, 03:45:13 am »
Funnily enough, in the couple of years of bishopping so far, I have had to deal with some things like this (not the activist thing because in Britain few people care enough about religion to be motivated to do that sort of thing). With situations where someone has used the opportunity of F&T to attack the Church or express their lack of testimony, they are given their say. Then, a member of the bishopric will stand and bear their testimony as directly as possible to balance out the situation and to try and restore the spirit of the meeting. It means that we sometimes get a real blessing. A couple of months ago, we had a non-member bear their testimony. He had bumped into the elders on his way to a different church, and they had invited him along. He said that the minute he walked into the building, he had felt the Spirit and that he had known for a fact that the people around him were faithful sons and daughters of God. Sadly, we haven't seen him again, but to my mind, it was something for the members. They heard a stranger's reaction to them and to the family that we have collectively created in the ward, and they have heard a testimony that tells them that it is good.

We also had an incident where a former member (name removed) had come to the church to collect his wife, who is still a faithful member. He has been doing video blogs for his new church where he slams the church. A member of the bishopric saw him, went over to him, shook his hand then gave him a big hug. Later in the day, he was on Facebook posting about the wonderful example of Christianity that he had been given. He isn't coming back just now, but things like this may plant the seeds of his return.

I think when we react with love and respect to other people, we do ourselves and them far more good than when we act as though the Church is fragile enough to be shattered by angry words. That was why the Church gained a lot of external respect over the Book of Mormon musical. Instead of declaring jihad, we made a joke back and suggested people read the book since they'd seen the musical. Love unfeigned is the only way forward, and realising that our testimonies should not be shaken by the words of others. Either what we believe is true or it isn't. If it is true, who cares what others say? The truth remains.
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All I can say is that I felt impressed to ask for the vote. There was no dissenting vote asked for. Also no one was compelled to do so. It was more about giving members the idea that this was their choice to act, and that hopefully they would. It was a matter of Quorum Business.
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I think it useful for a quorum leader to invoke the law of consent to commit them to the cause of action.
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General Discussion / Re: Current Events - US Politics Edition
« on: September 19, 2019, 10:28:07 pm »
Today someone responded to a friend's comment on FB by saying that people have become more empathic. I don't think that's true.

Last week (or about) there was a clip of a presidential candidate (doesn't matter who) being asked if he believed that the questioner's mother had a right to abort him the day before he was born. The candidate replied that it was a matter between the woman and the doctor. At that, the seated audience (women) in view of the camera cheered. I don't think I'll ever get that out of my mind, the vision of a crowd of women loudly cheering for the horrific death of a full-term baby.  It is heart-crushing. How did we, children of God, become so callous that we don't see this for what it is?
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General Discussion / Re: Guns in the Handbook
« on: September 19, 2019, 10:55:56 am »
The proliferation of guns and the fetishization of them as part of gun culture is a significant contributing factor to gun violence in the USA and has been harmful the the safety and prosperity of its citizens. 
In this, the entertainment industry--movies, music, games--is just as culpable.
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General Discussion / Re: The Feel-Good Thread
« on: September 17, 2019, 12:34:03 pm »
But lost lambs are the job of all good people.
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General Discussion / The charter has been posted
« on: September 17, 2019, 03:52:50 am »
The Charter is now official, my admin persona has posted it in the Please Read section. All discussion threads in that second have been locked, but left for reading for a while. Eventually they will go.
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Please Read / New Nauvoo Charter - please read and abide by
« on: September 17, 2019, 03:48:09 am »
The following charter has been drawn up by members of the forum for members of the forum to abide by in their discussions. Please ensure that you have read it, and follow its principles when posting here and New Nauvoo.

The Nauvoo Charter

As members of this Nauvoo forum, we share the experiences of life and service as disciples of Jesus Christ. We learn from each other to better serve our Lord and our brothers and sisters. The charter states our core beliefs and convictions as the foundation of our community. The charter also states expectations in conduct and communication. While all members are not required to share core beliefs, all members are required to adhere to the stated standards of conduct and communication. Violation of standards may result in warnings, suspension, or expulsion as determined by forum moderators.

We believe that God is our Eternal Father and that we are His children. In all of our communication and interactions, we treat each other as children of God.

We believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior. We seek to conduct ourselves as disciples of Christ.
We believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the organization of His church were restored through the prophet Joseph Smith. We sustain the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators. We support them as having authority to receive revelation to guide the Church. In exploring and discussing gospel doctrines and church policies, we proceed with the premise that prophets are inspired leaders called to speak for the Lord.

We participate in Nauvoo as equals. We bring to forum discussions such knowledge and ideas as we have gained through study and experience; however, we do not seek special privilege for our ideas. We may demonstrate our ideas with reference to scripture or to the published teachings of latter-day prophets, as well as through personal experiences and our own best reasoning; however, if our sources must remain private, then we should not contribute to the discussion.

We respect the fact that members come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and have differences in interpretation and opinion. We may prefer our own ideas and feel them to be well-supported by scripture and by latter-day prophets. At all times, we humbly admit that our own understanding may be limited, and that further light and knowledge will increase our understanding.

We avoid the spirit of contention. If we think that another’s ideas are contrary to the gospel, we do not strive to prevail in a debate or to argue that person into silence or submission. We set forth our own understanding with patience and kindness. As disciples of Christ, we are merciful to each other and assume that members speak and act with the best of motives.

We keep sacred those things which belong in the temple. We do not publicly discuss temple covenants. We do not quote temple teachings unless they can be found in scriptural sources which can be cited.

We welcome and encourage inclusive communication which expresses compassion, regard, and humor. We avoid divisive communication which expresses sarcasm, cruelty, and light-mindedness about sacred things. We refrain from using language that is generally regarded as coarse or blasphemous.

We seek unity, not division, among us. We emphasize our commonalities over our differences.

Welcome to Nauvoo!
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